Peter_Puget

What about routes like the E Face of Cutthroat, it sure looks alpine to me. Or how about the pictures of Burgundy in winter (or any routes in winter for that matter). Is this region really reduced to "just" rock climbing at the onset of summer. Some value judgement seems to be coming into play..... The Upper Wall Waterfall has yet to be climbed. Is Index to "just" rock climbing only when it's over 32 degrees or is it rock climbing only because no one has yet had the "adventure"? Is "alpine" merely a location?

All the early ascents of El Cap were major achievements. Equipment, techniques and psychological barriers were truly being pushed to extremes. We will simply have to disagree when you suggest routes like the Becky Route on Liberty Bell were at all comparable let alone more of an adventure.

Not sure I buy that. For example didn't the AAJ refuse to publish early El Cap routes because they didnt have a summit? Which had more adventure? I would wager $100 that the guys doing the FA of Dream On (Low angle crag for sure that ended in the middle of a slab)had a hell of a lot more adventure than the average FA of a WA Pass "Alpine" route.

Here’s an example: Ken4ord wrote: If you can climb a 5.12 crag climb there are plenty of 5.12 cracks on Dragontail you could do. They are both pretty much rock climbing, although most would consider Dragontail mountaineering. By the way I have climbed on Dragontail and never considered a route going to the summit.

Jeesh you guys this was a serious question. Someone is always bringing the subject upin some form - take for instance CBS talking about the SCW descent. I'll work on the Venn Diagram later tonight.

Where does rock climbing begin and mountaineering/alpine climbing start? I consider Darrington, Static, Index (granite) most of Leavenworth rock climbing not mountaineering. Most of WA Pass is rock climbing to me. Leavenworth gets kinda confusing for example: Prusik (sp?) seems like rockclimbing to me as does CBR but Dragontail can be both – some short cracks are definitely not mountaineering but the long routes are. Some of the higher Icicle crags have much more difficult approaches than most mountains.

Smith was great. Almost alone on the west side. Beacon s/b fine today. I should be there in an hour.

It rained at Beacon yesterday. On my way to Smith today. Index is so rainforest.

A friend, who must be somewhere around 50yo now, recently told me that the thing he regrets most in life is not quitting high school to begin his lifelong journey as a itinerant climber a couple of years earlier than he did.

If 10a counts for moderate, Blownout at Beacon is a good route. It's a real crack.

Here's Mcash's Lost Charms TR. Most of Lost Charms is mush easier than 5.9. In fact it has only two 5.9 moves the second can easily be aided. In the attached photo taken from MCash's TR the obvious line of grass just above the climber is the line of FA. If cleaned it is a perfect 5.5/6 crack. Bring a nut tool and after a few ascents it will be golden.

The list is growing..... I'd say Lamar's/10% is a better combination than Beek/10%. Both have better moves than most of Outerspace but not much exposure. If it was cleaned off the Tatoosh/Narrow Arrow combination would be a great moderate route. As it stand there are a few blocks that would definately come off (and quite possibly kill someone) if the received much traffic. If someone was climbing it, I sure wouldn't hang out down below.

If moderate means 5.8/9 then better multi-pitch routes would be: Orbit 5.8+ (SCW) Lost Charms 5.9 (Static Point) Princely Ambitions 5.9+ (Index) Quinn Konehead 5.9 (Darrington) Wild Traverse/Apron Jam 5.9 (Midnight Rock) The headwall pitches on Outerspace require very little actual crack climbing technique.

The route is fun but not great. Think about it: Pitch 1: Mundane scrambling up a non-descript rock. Pitch 2: A so-so traverse. Pitch 3: 20' of fun moves in the middle of mediocre climbing. Pitch 4: Sandy climbing. Pitch 5: Fun climbing up the headwall. Pitch 6: More of the same up the headwall. These last two pitches become pretty darn repetitive. The most enjoyable aspect is the exposure not the moves. Hanging on Library Ledge is pretty cool. All in all a *** route not ****. However most overhyped route on SCW is Iconoclast/Hypersace. The walk off isn't so bad just bring walking shoes. A better choice: When open hike to Midnight and try the Wild Traverse/Apron Jam link-up.

Ah they do in "high class" porn...

It's the smaller Valley Giant..the cam that is.

Little Person......

???????

I just came across this picture someone sent me awhile ago. They were trying to entice me into an offwidth affair...

What part of town are you in?

YARDBIRDS!

I admit to feeling bad about trolling Mattp after he told me to fuck off. Made me reevaluate what kind of online persona I have.

link

_________________________________________________________________ That was my lead: I remember thinking of what a Mensch Robbins was to show up in shit (by our standards) shoes, a heavy rack of pins and a hammer, and just did it anyway. For those who don't know it fell off years ago..... Anyone remember the flake on Princely Ambitions? Or the Chopper Flake on 10%?

How does it compare to Saccherer? or Mid Term? Seems no harder than Reeds p1 to me. Outer Limts p1 is way harder.