Peter_Puget

Trask - I am not in favor of gun control. Here is an excerpt showing a critical point. A point I might add that also will apply to us here in the US with the upcoming monorail fiasco. Excerpt: Back in 1995, the Department of Justice told Parliament that the program would cost taxpayers about $2 million. The Department now says that by 2004-05 the costs of this program could amount to more than $1 billion. Dru - I do conclude that since you never challenged my statistics, which were clearly different from yours, that you are conceding that yours are a complete fantasy. I believe that, the inaccuracies in your numbers not withstanding, their very usefulness in supporting your conclusion is nonexistant. Some of the reasons for this are stated in my earlier post. I did make the claim that if you researched it you would find that medical outcomes in the US are superior to those in Canada. Chapter 6 merely shows an auditor's finding that some of the major institutions gathering medical statistic in Canada are doing a poor job. See quote below. Quote:"Health Canada, however, does not adequately document its quality control practices for data on communicable and chronic diseases and injuries. In addition, the Canadian Institute for Health Information needs to better document its processes for ensuring the quality of patient information collected by hospitals." As far as trolling, I entered this debate only after you made your claims. (patently false claims by the way) So you hoser. PP

Ah GregW and Trask - Check out the following links on Canadian gun control. Note also that Dru spewed comlete BS regarding Healthcare earlier in this thread. Check out chapter 6 regarding healthcare stats on link 1 if you are so inclined. link 1 link 2 PP

Using the old Kloke book we got to the top at the old lookout via old roads but couldn't find that darn cliff. I have been told there are several bolted routes up a 45 degree roof.

Canada spends only about 9% of its GDP on healthcare as against America's 14%.(Source: New Republic) Comments: a) This gap is missleading. For example, America's 14% figure includes the cost of the vast American medical research program. The budget of the National Institutes of Health alone - $27 billion in fiscal 2003 ; is larger than the total healthcare expenditures of the provinces of Ontario and Quebec combined. (Together these provinces contain over 50% of the country's population)Canada does little medical research. As in defense, Canada leaches for free on America's costly efforts. b) Much of the differential between the cost of the Canadian and American systems is achieved reducing the the incomes of doctors and nurses. c). The average age of the Canadian population is lower than that of the United States. There is less obesity in Canada, fewer premature births, fewer victims of assault and attempted homicide. Canadians also drive fewer miles per year than Americans. Even under exactly identical health-care policy regimes, one would expect health-care expenditure in the United States to be significantly higher than in Canada. Increasing the price of gas and taxation on alcohol and cigarettes will increase lifespans.

Clarification please! Dru Quote: "what about preventative medicine?" PP Reply: What about it? Dru quote: the USA spends more per capita on health care than Canada does, and gets less results overall PP reply: How does reasserting your premise count as argument? Dru quote: "I should point out that the per capita figure refers to both taxation and personal spending. Canada's gov't spends about 70% of the budget on heath care and 2% on the military, in the US I believe the figures are reversed?" PP Reply: What are these numbers! What budget? PP

OK serious reply. Dru you are msitaken as to quality of healthcare being reflected in averag elifespan. What needs to be compared are the outcomes after medical care is sought. Sadly in this Canada sucks compared to the US. PP Now go use your Orgone generator!

A better way

Nonesense! Understanding is power!

Another exciting principle which Gurdjieff brings forth is the Law of Seven or, as he calls it, Heptaparaparshinokh, to which he devotes a whole chapter. If one can in any way sum up the intricate logic of this law, it is that all events proceed in seven steps or "deflections," each step having specific attributes and properties which determine the progress of every activity. Gurdjieff links this law and its progressions rather intimately with the stages of a man's development.

Heptaparaparshinokh - Apply it in your life today!

Please give me evenings and weekends! Second choice: Offset Aliens. PP

While Bellingham area cliffs are being discussed: Has anyone been to Butler? Come on someone. The potential for dry climbing in the middle of winter must have enticed someone!

I must protest I have never proclaimed myself an intelectual. And never confuse a urinal with the gutter.

LOL She must be enjoying all the "Menergy" being thrown around here!

Amen Brother

SC - You are definately acting as tho being gay is something to be ashamed of? What's up with that? Shape up! PP

Greg - I must say it is weird that after spurning my warm and cozy bivi invitation that you so soon find yourself in mistaken for being gay again. I say Free your mind - the water is warm! PP

Sadly DFA we all do. I have climbed there several times and fully agree the place is not so great. My belief is that the "spiritual" aspect is total BS. It is being used cynically. As such my response is at first blush a polite "f%$# you." A moments retrospection tho prevails and makes me think that perhaps F&^^ you isn't such a great response. I think that what needs to be considered is simply precedent. Should our response as climbers be dictated by only the quality of a particular area? If so I think we are being very shortsighted. Whatever the outcome climbers need to at least at first assert their right to climb and have access to rocks on public property. After all without this asertion no compromise is possible merely a docile acceptance of whatever others decide. Overall climbing access will and should be a compromise with other competing interests. PP Rate me more stars!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have found it easy to keep my temp. fat around for the last 15 years! and it does keep me comfy. Add cheesecake to your diet and a cheeseburger and frie each lunch.

The Shaggs are real, pure, unaffected by outside influences. Their music is different, it is theirs alone. They believe in it, live it. It is a part of them and they are a part of it. Of all contemporary acts in the world today, perhaps only the Shaggs do what others would like to do, and that is perform only what they believe in, what they feel, not what others think the Shaggs should feel. The Shaggs love you, and love to perform for you. You may love their music or you may not, but whatever you feel, at last you know you can listen to artists who are real. They will not change their music or style to meet the whims of a frustrated world. You should appreciate this because you know they are pure what more can you ask? Betty, Helen and Dorothy Wiggin are the Shaggs. They are sisters and members of a large family where mutual respect and love for each other is at an unbelievable high. They study and practice together, encouraged and helped by those around them. Betty, Helen and Dorothy live in a small town in New Hampshire, in an atmosphere which has encouraged them to develop their music unaffected by outside influences. They are happy people and love what they are doing. They do it because they love it.

Hear the genius!!!! Read the liner notes! Become a fan!

Damn! You are amazing. so close INTP

Guess what I am before I reveal all!

Here are some Ibn links: one two three I say check these out. They are from diverse groups. This site always cracks me up!