Peter_Puget

I don't see the allure of dry tooling or even of ice climbing but there is certainly no shortage of cliffs available for TRing. Lawgoddess, give GregW a call and check out the rocks around Anderson Creek off of hwy 2. The write up a trip report for us to read. Better yet spend time in the gym getting in shape for rock! PP

It's not leading all the pitches but leading enough so that I can say I really climbed the route as opposed to being a belayer. I am always amazed at how many people claim to have climbed hard aid routes but basically were belayers. Whats worse than not leading enough of the hard pitches is having to fessup that you lead none of them. As a practical matter, for most parties I'd say 2 is faster. PP

No that's what I want to do!

quote: Originally posted by Greg W: What's wrong with a bit of friendly jocularity? Nothing but I am sure if you relax you'll find it much more enjoyable. In anycase you'll remember it more than the climb!

Advantages of Zipper Area: 1 Possible opportunity for free climbing even in rain. 2 Large areas essentially seltered from rain. 3 Several routes to work on. 4 Widely varied terrain a Base of zipper b Zipper Slab c La Bomba overhanging crack Downside: approach hike [ 11-13-2002, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Damn and here I am making a serious reply to this darn thread. Lamy is right 3 can be a mess if you aren't dialed into the big wall thing. The biggest drawback is that you can only lead 1/3 of the pitches. That is you are only on the sharp end 2/3 of the time you would be if there were only two. Sometimes with only one partner I have been involved in much scheming to get the right pitches - with three it can become a nightmare. Nothing is worse than jugging most of the hard pitches on a difficult aid climb - well I guess jugging all of them might be worse. PP

For those who have "clicked" and read some of J-B's links here is a link to Daniel Pipes. Daniel Pipes Here are some great gems from some of the "news" sources J-B seems to prefer. They all refer to the Israeli incursion in to Jenin several months ago. Israel's actions in Jenin were "every bit as repellent" as Osama bin Laden's attack on New York on September 11", Guardian in its lead editorial of April 17. "We are talking here of massacre, and a cover-up, of genocide," said a leading columnist for the Evening Standard, April 15. "Rarely in more than a decade of war reporting from Bosnia, Chechnya, Sierra Leone, Kosovo, have I seen such deliberate destruction, such disrespect for human life," reported Janine di Giovanni, the London Times's correspondent in Jenin, on April 16. "Amid the ruins, the grisly evidence of a war crime," the Jerusalem correspondent for the London Independent, Phil Reeves, began his dispatch from Jenin: "A monstrous war crime that Israel has tried to cover up for a fortnight has finally been exposed." He continued: "The sweet and ghastly reek of rotting human bodies is everywhere, evidence that it is a human tomb. The people say there are hundreds of corpses, entombed beneath the dust." (April 16th) Reeves yet again: "atrocities committed in the Jenin refugee camp, where its army has killed and injured hundreds of Palestinians." On April 17, the Guardian's lead editorial compared the Israeli incursion in Jenin with the attack on the World Trade Center on September 11. "Jenin," wrote the Guardian was "every bit as repellent in its particulars, no less distressing, and every bit as man-made." "Jenin camp looks like the scene of a crime… Jenin already has that aura of infamy that attaches to a crime of especial notoriety," Writing on April 15, A. N. Wilson, one of the Evening Standard's leading columnists wrote "we are talking here of massacre, and a cover-up, of genocide." Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, a leading columnist for the Independent wrote (April 15): "I would suggest that Ariel Sharon should be tried for crimes against humanity … and be damned for so debasing the profoundly important legacy of the Holocaust, which was meant to stop forever nations turning themselves into ethnic killing machines." Some US reports contradicting the above reports: Boston Globe: Following extensive interviews with "civilians and fighters" in Jenin "none reported seeing large numbers of civilians killed." On the other hand, referring to the deaths of Israeli soldiers in Jenin, Abdel Rahman Sa'adi, an "Islamic Jihad grenade-thrower," told the Globe "This was a massacre of the Jews, not of us." On April 16, Newsday's reporter in Jenin, Edward Gargan, wrote: "There is little evidence to suggest that Israeli troops conducted a massacre of the dimensions alleged by Palestinian officials." Molly Moore of the Washington Post reported: "No evidence has yet surfaced to support allegations by Palestinian groups and aid organizations of large-scale massacres or executions." Some additional facts: The Palestinian Authority now claims that 56 Palestinians died in Jenin., Human Rights Watch report said 52 Palestinians died. Israel says 46 Palestinians died. Note the absurd use of the terms genocide and crime in the J_B favored sources. What makes the use of such terms repellent and contemptible is that they are based in purposefully spread lies. As such they are not part of a vigorous debate but rather are mere propaganda points to be used by those who either uncritically accept such drivel or believe if you repeat a lie with vigor and volume you can will it into becoming the truth. PP

quote: Originally posted by j_b: quote:I dont think it proves much I'd expect nothing different from you. Ouch! quote: I am not sure what point you're making that israeli policy toward arabs has a large responsability in this bloody mess. I am not surprised you can't see it even after reading the pieces I linked, those with a more open mind should think differently. You state the obvious. That the past actions of one of the major participants in a conflict can have had an impact on the structure of current conditions hardly needs your links.

Can I come too or is three a crowd.

I agree with the try them on comments but alos figure out what kind of climbing you will do. For example the perfect sport climbing helmet is far different than the perfect alpine one.

Greg - Are you telling me that if if we go aid climbing you will refuse to share my deluxe double wide portaledge? Nothing like company in a steamy doublewide to pass time! While you're hanging out

Great TR. Aren't cams needed in some holes fo rthe top half too?

I could go on all day but as I said in an earlier post I dont think it proves much. I am not sure what point you're making J_B. Please explain. Mtngoat himself said that Irealis have done some bad things. He merely said they were less vile than the palestinians a point I agree with. In a way you are agreeing with him by showing the diversity of opinion that is possibly to express in Isreal. With hyperbole please explain. [ 11-11-2002, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Peter Puget ]

Wow HC is an awesome route. Pretty runout on real place yoru own pro even Dwayne r and Pope would be impressed. Who sent that guy?

Hey did anyone ever give me a definition of colonialism?

The Egyptian paper, al Ahram, asked for British poet Tom Paulin's opinions on the Middle East: Among other things, he opined that the US-born Jewish settlers should be shot dead. "They are Nazis, racists," he said, adding - unnecessarily, you might argue - "I feel nothing but hatred for them." He also pronounced that the state of Israel had no right to exist, that Tony Blair's government was "Zionist"… Now check out this link: Pathetic Joke

Wasn't last weekend the big everyone's going to Smith weekend? What did eveyone do? And don't say Freshiez! PP

Glad to have brightened up this dreary Monday for you!

Yeow what utter BS! Nonresponsive. Bitter, rambling attackes against a man (or several men) not an argumant at all. For better read try this! Better Read!

Any groovy new cracks in the valley thwese days that aren't 5.13? Ever done Cream? If so, what's the pro like? PP

And what Goat forgot to mention is that the the resolution passed with the same % approval as Saddam just recently received!

Egads Please define coloialism fo rme and France certainly had colonies more recently than 50 yrs ago!

No to give away my age but I have wanted to do Cream since the 1974 edition of Ascent came out! PP

Wallstein go tme thinkin': the first pitch of the Zipper is always dry.

I bet you are right!