Peter_Puget

Just got around to reading this thread. here is a fun link to play around with: Click on the fall simulator One this whole discussion got me thinking about is the usefulness of lots of crappy pro even if its function is simply to mimick a "screamer." Last week I climbed Desert Song in J-Tree. The second pitch has difficult to protect climbing right off the belay. Every thing was bomber at the belay but who wants to hold a 30' factor 2 fall? Our solution was to dump some more pieces effectively creating an additional anchor for a directional and then place a few pieces we expected to blow out in case of a fall. PP

Why he found it at the super groovy NWOG.org site! Scott strikes again!

SOmebody help before Saturday! P-L-E-A-S-E

After seeing that nobady voted for anything over 10.5mm I scanned the MEC, REI, and Mountain Gear sites. The only Mtn Gr carried 11.mm ropes. (2 ) I remember once buying a 11.5 (7?) once years ago for a wall!

Silly! No it is a real place definately not really a Mecca but it does have a few very overhanging routes I hear are worth checking out on a rainy day.

Does anyone have good (as in specific) directions to that overhanging sport climbing Mecca known as Butler Bluff? Tried to find it Sunday but failed!

What's funny is the diversity. If people were to state the reasoning behind their choices it would be interesting. I agree with Mattp that most of the routes here are great but some I actually thought were mediocre. I once recomended a route to someone and when they saw me the next time they were convinced I mislead them on purpose. I didn't. Here is an add: Rutabaga 5.11a/.10d Squamish Reasoning: Climbing makes you think. Crack changes during the route. Crux move made with pro close by but not above you. Not just a simple grab and go crack. Nice stances to ponder the moves above.

That item is now off the site.

Funny I ordered three and the total came to $29.00 with shipping. I wonder what will happen.

Cheap Cam - No problem leaving one of these on a rap!

As single ropes! Damn! I screwed up two good posts!

Silly I mean NON-glacier, NON-low angle routes!

Ok I can't reduce this list to one but excluding exasperator: Penny Lane Squamish 5.8/9 Arrowroot Squamish 5.9 Thin Fingers Index 5.11a Godzilla 5.9 Index Sometimes A Great Notion Leavenworth 5.10c Apron Jam (Wild Traverse) Leavenworth 5.9 Blown Out Beacon Rock 5.10a

What rope size do ypu climb on fo rnon-glacier/low angle routes?

What does moderate mean?

Post deleted by Peter_Puget

In the gym I see many variations of knee raises. Typical varieties are: a - legs hanging straight and knees brought up and then legs straightened. b - Legs brought up with knees bent a somewhat constant angle. c - Hanging from arm straps. d - Hanging from a pullup bar. e - Hanging from arm rests. So my questions are: Why so many variations? Are some just plain wrong? Why not just do situps? PP Help I need more stars!

Hey Col. I was at Josh too! Well for a day. Maybe you saw some of my blood on Course & Buggy. Did Glory Road and Desert Song before we went over to Headstone Rock. What WA needs is a great 5.6 like Headstone rock - next time I will bring my lunch. PP

Wall's post got me a thinking about how often thin crack climbing apporaches face climbing. The perfect example would be Clean Crack at Squamish. Climbs like those at Indian Creek, which Wallstien calls "pure" crack climbs are the rare exception. For example climbs like Moratorium or Gold Rush in the Valley do not have typical "jam your feet in the crack" sections at their respective cruxes yet they are without doubt crack climbs. Many crack routes have cruxy sections of off balance laybacking(eg Back to the Future or almost all the cracks at Snowshed Wall at Donner Summit, Psychopath start to Iconoclast) These routes require a commitment and confidence in placing pro that sport routes do not have and which seems to require specific practice but alot of the technique used to climb them is typically associated with face routes. The diverse nature of crack routes of course begs the question: what is a face route? Face routes and sport routes seem to be used interchangably in this thread yet there is a world of difference between overhanging jug routes and a thin Meadows test piece. As the grades get harder I think Wallstien hit the nail on the head when he pointed out that lots of face climbing footwork (esp the lower angle routes) can be transferred to crack climbing. Thinking of a route at Smith that feels like a crack climb for me as far as far as footwork I came up with Latin Lover. So all this rambling leads me to conclude that RG2002 is right when he says it is all good.

From my own experience training for cracks is much more difficult than training for sport/face climbing. Mostly because there are so few opportunities to train for crack climbing. Last few years I have become irritated that my crack climbing sucks so much! I think Cavey once witnessed my dismal crack technique! In Seattle, I would recommend the training at the UW climbing rock. The cracks there are amazingly good for learning crack technique. Start by using everything then start eliminating rocks and finally the crack. Try to climb them with as many jams as possible. Down climb! Practice footwork. Even though it sometimes hurts like hell jamming your foot in a crack is essential to success. If you can't access the UW rock run laps as often as you can on route you can climb. At Index try top roping Iron Horse, Pressure Drop, Marginal Karma or Even Steven. At Smith I'd head to the Gorge. Minas Morgul is a fun TR too. Of course once the technique is down there still is the question of strategizing where and when to place pro. Nothing wrecks my psych faster than pulling the wrong size piece off my rack. I can't remember the last time I fell doing a crack move because I always seem to freak out placing a piece and hang. Since sport climbing contains very little strategizing about protection it seem to have a negative impact on my crack climbing. Getting the pro thing down is the hardest part of crack climbing. If you took ten Sporto climbers who flash 12b at Smith and 10 Trads who flash 5.12b crack in Yosemite and then asked the Sport climbers to climb Tales of Power(btw a climb with relatively straight forward protection) and the Trads to climb Watts Tots my guess would be that a higher percentage of Trads would succeed on WT than sport climbers on ToP.

Ah you guys look so second rate! Check this out! The pro-Syrian Lebanese daily Al-Saffeer(1) carried today an article by Abd Al-Hamid Fakhuri titled "Heil Bush – America Uber Alles."(2) The following are excerpts from the article: "Oh ruler of the planet Earth, like those who came before you, Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander [the Great], Nero, Genghis Khan, and Hitler, we, Ruler of the World, offer you our submission and our complete loyalty on our own behalf and on behalf of our peoples. On the occasion of your magnificent victory in the elections of your great country, as you have imposed your will, that cannot be denied, on the [u.N.] Security Council which passed the resolution [to send weapons inspectors] as preparation for your war on Iraq – which confirms your penetrating and long-range insight and the rightness of the principles by which you rule." "Heil Bush, America Uber Alles!" "We humbly acknowledge that you have represented truth, justice, democracy, freedom, equality, and humanism in their most glorious forms throughout the generations – the wars you were forced to wage in Korea, Vietnam, Africa, Yugoslavia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, and the coups you planned in various areas in the world, and the assassinations of some leaders of countries that were carried out only because they did not obey you and, despite their weakness, joined the axis of evil that was eliminated or will be eliminated in future." "Heil Bush, America Uber Alles!" "We wonder what we should call you: 'Emperor of the Universe,' 'Sultan of All Time,' 'Shah of All Generations'? All these titles are not seemly [enough] for you. By Allah, had the monotheistic religions not been revealed, we would have made you into a god, as the Pharaohs and Romans did [with their leaders]. You have never spoken without wisdom dripping from your lips; you have done nothing without the good of mankind guiding you. You killed millions only to save billions more from the evil that they represented. All anyone has to do is watch you speak to see the nobility and courage on your face and perceive your pure, far-seeing gaze towards [the horizon], and the radiant half-smile that heralds your sublime goals and your optimism in leading humanity towards the ideal in which you believe." "Heil Bush, America Uber Alles!" "Even though you still struggle with a small number of problems that distract you, even partially, from your blessed concern about the future of mankind – such as Iraq, Cuba, North Korea, and, we almost forgot [to mention], Palestine, where a group of its sons continues to disturb your rest with the strangest Intifada of its kind, heeding no reason preached by the masters of Arab wisdom – and there are many. We know with certainty that you will eradicate them all with the reason of the power of justice by which you rule." "Heil Bush, America Uber alles!" "We buy weapons from your factories to express our complete submission, to increase the profits of your companies, to create employment for your workers, and punish our people so that they will... fear rebelling against us, or against you. We entrust our natural resources to your hands, and then borrow money from the international banks that you control. We open up our markets to your goods, in the name of international free trade, at the expense of our farmers and laborers, and we enable you to change our culture and even to cause its demise, including controlling our thoughts and deleting [from our writings] whatever you see fit [to delete], and rewriting our history and changing our curriculum, even in religious affairs. All this [you do] so that we will assimilate into globalization or Americanization, which is, beyond a doubt, the height [of aspirations] in our modern world. Thus, we renew our vow of fealty to you; we bow our heads and raise our fists to you to say in a single powerful voice: 'Heil Bush, America Uber Alles.'" Endnotes: (1) Al-Saffeer (Lebanon), November 21, 2002. (2) The term, from the Nazi salute and the Nazi slogan "Deutschland Uber Alles," was translated by the author into Arabic.

Two headlines from today's Washington Post: "Gore: Bush Loses Terror Focus 2000 Rival Says Focus on Iraq Aided GOP but Not Nation" "U.S. Identifies Captured Al Qaeda Official Suspected Head of USS Cole Bombing Caught Earlier This Month" SOme guys just can't catch a break. Gore isn't the Dem's best hope and he won't run a serious campaign. PP

quote: Originally posted by Dr Flash Amazing: quote:Originally posted by Peter Puget: DFA - You are way wrong on this ... INCONCEIVABLE! That was my first thought too! And if you do chat with beefchub and notice he types like me, it is only by chance!

DFA - You are way wrong on this probably because you have never chatted with Allison. She is the chat queen! Wish I was home and chatting away!

Thanks for the great replies!