Peter_Puget

I am somewhat out of this debate but I do notice that most of the posters seem to be theorists regarding these routes. For example, no one has confirmed the routes in the pictures are the routes Paco first mentioned. For example, no one has confirmed how old some of the routes are. For example, most of the posters haven’t even seen the routes and are slamming them All of this is conjecture based on a priori assumptions and biases. Mattp – Please don’t dry tool on existing sport routes. The tools can/do mess up the rock. As an aside modern mixed climbing has absolutely have no appeal to me. It appears to have very few of the qualities I enjoy about climbing. Of course that is my personal preference and in no way should be seen as an attack on mixed climbing. PP

F8 - Have you seen the routes? Are the routes in the pictures the ones Paco was writing about? Exactly what do you mean by pristine?

How long have some of these routes been in place? I think those routes in the pictures have been up for several years. Perhaps I am thinking of someplace else.

Amber Just keep the spray out of the RC forum. If you become confused as to what spray is just use the broadest definition you can imagine. PP

Were is that? Arizona?

Much more enticing. Where is it?

LOL I don't care about those pics! It is pretty shot.

Shouldn't this thread be in the New Mixed Climbing Forum? Sorry couldn't resist!

I do not think that you can equate a constructive criticism with either “shooting down” or “attacking.” In the cc.com world I’ll admit they are pretty much the same but in the real world feedback is often appreciated and sought out. A person making an FA might have difficulty appraising the difficulty of a route. A guidebook author may by too familiar with the routes. PP

I think Tieton has been rated well in the past. Some of the routes are hard to rate. For example the sport routes at Lava Point.

The last pitch of Sunblessed seemed stiff for the rating. The three tiered grading system has been used in several locations. For example the Wilts guide to Suicide.

Buy Berkely and if you dont think it is better. I'll give Erik $10 to give you at a Pub CLub Have you heard the remastered Berkley?

Aren't these routes several years old or am I thinking of a nearby cliff

Jimi Hendrix

Good read!

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Jon - When did you get your info. Do you think that the wife of a US government employee would not be considered a suspiscious contact in the regions involved in WMD? Heck anywhere for that matter.

Cavey - My comments apply to the gallery as well as your threads.

My own sense is that it will probably be forgotten by the election. Even if a culprit is found in the administration he/she will be cast off and the casting away will be another example of the "ethics" of the current administration. Since the story is in fact quite old a real cynic could think that the administration is coordinating the whole thing right now in order to get it out of the way if it spins out of control!

Post the name of the gosh darn route/mountain/cliff when posting pictures! pP

Keel Hauled I think

Erik - learn to tilt the camera! Nice Pic! What route?

Mattp - I would add that even if I was to accept your "money interest" theory at a certain time an organization such as the CIA or the State Dept will at some point will hold its own interests and existence above all else. This self presevervation behavior will occur even to the extent that its actions are contrary to the established mission of the organization. PP

Winter calm down. I merely responded to the previous references of Clinton. By the way I think I did provide the best links to summarize the situation. Now what is interesting is the left is now relying on the CIA which has never in its known history misrepresented the truth for its own political agenda, could not be lying, whereas Novak, who is a Republican, is obviously lying scum! I just marvel at the way things work out.

It's the meth that makes me this way!