Lambone

With all do respect haireball, and I do respect (almost) all "old schoolers," here again are some of my agruments about this silly little insignificant tool of our trade... "-prior to the advent of tools like the reverso, guides and instructors used a technique called the "alpine clutch" to belay multiple following climbers. The alpine clutch was a "hands-off" top belay which involved threading the belay rope through a pair of matched carabiners in such a way that the rope would only run in one direction, but would lock when pulled in the other direction." -It sounds like you are refering to what some people/books call a Garda Knot. My opinion is that it works well for hauling a pack and such, but it is almost impossible to release it while its loaded, without riging a mini-haul to unweight it. This would make lowering a climber a real pain in the ass! Am I wrong, or are we talking about two different things? "-- in my opinion, then, the inventors of the plate and tube style belay devices were not creating a superfluous product - they created a product that could approximate the stopping capacity of a munter hitch, and was easier to use. I have not used a reverso, but judging from the questions and issues raised in this thread, I suspect that it would not easily meet these criteria for being a significant improvement - i.e. performs as well or better than the competition, and is easier to use..."[/b] -personally, in my opinion, I think that the Reverso is the best thing out there for what it does (belaying two ropes independantly off the anchor). It is smoother than a Kong Gi-Gi, and you can also belay the leader with it. The fact that it doesn't twist the hell out of your ropes makes it worth carrying, and the twenty bucks. And if you drop it, than you can allways use a munter hitch. [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-14-2001).]

Hey D, We climbed on the same day! I actually remember seeing you travers below us on the North East Face (we waved to each other). I remember thinking, shit I'd better not kick anything down right now! Truley an impresive solo climb, Congrats! I heard you walk past our bivi spot sometime in the night. The Wind!-man it was blowin up there. It never let me sleep for more than 30 minutes at a time. I didn't think it would let us climb, fortunately it died down in the afternoon. This is a perfect example of why I like this web site. Without it our passing would just be a distant memory, two strangers exchanging waves on a remote peak, never close enough to exchange words. Anyway, it was good to see your trip report, it brought me back to that beautifull day! [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-14-2001).]

I love that Montana is never mentioned in Ice climbing threads on this site. They don't have any ice to climb over there anyway, better to go to Colorado.

Yeah Pope, that works. I use yet another Petzl gadget called a Gri-Gri. They work real nice, you should check 'um out. It is the most static belay device on the market though, so its important give a dynamic belay if the gear is sketchy. Jon, don't feel guilty about buying Petzl stuff. Every company advertises, but only a few make really good + inovative products. Petzl is one of them, the others are just nock offs. Don, sorry if I came of sounding like an instructor. I know well enough that you don't need a punk like me "telling you how it is!" I don't think many begginers would have any use for a Reverso, but thats not who its geared towards. dahrmab, I was just kidding... Everyone else on this site has called me Lamebone, or I-am-a-bone, so what the hell difference does it make if you do to... welcome to the club! Yet, I'd argue that "multi-tasking" at the belay is an important part of getting off long routes before dark. Especially if you climb a slow as I do! Anyway, Kevins right- Reverso's kick ass (but too bad they make alot of noise when clipped to your harness ). [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-14-2001).]

"Hey Lamebone, if I ever got up to the anchor on a route that I thought you were belaying me on, and found you digging in your pack or taking a piss, I would shove my arm up your ass and speak to you with your own penis-sock puppet." -dahrmabum "I shouldn't have said Lamebone, that was inappropriate, I don't even know you. It came off more dickish than I meant. Sorry." Its Lambone you asshole , I don't expect to be climbing together anytime soon. Unless you don't mind me pissing on your head. [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-13-2001).]

Yeah, as long as it has the ability to move (ie. self equalizing anchor), I don't see why it wouldn't lock. A pull is a pull right. Mabye you could explain your theoretical situation a little bit more???

funny...ha, ha

quote: Originally posted by jon: I figured you or someone had talked to the Petzl rep about this. Obviously the device can't be perfect, it surely is the best I've used. Hitching a sling to the free biner like you described was one of the things I had though of, I just haven't tried this and wasn't sure how much weight was required to do this, luckily I'm pretty fat so I just have to use a little body weight The other thing I though of is a bit crazy but if you had the gear and were desperate could work, which is to set up a prussik on the rope going down to the follower with a load releasing hitch, load the prussik unloading the Reverso like you described and switch the device to a normal belay, then reload the Reverso using the load releasing hitch. Kind of complicated but I guess it's something to think about in case you get in real big jam. Keep in mind that similar belay devices(gigi) have the same problem. But you don't need a whole lot of force to release the biner enough to let the rope slide through. You can do it with one arm, no body weight needed. Allthough, I was lowering my girlfreind who only weighs about 120. It might be a different story if you were lowering Caveman!!!! In that case you could take the sing through another biner and do a mini-block and tackle as fishstick mentions. Of course you could allways escape the belay device entirely, but that is more than I perfer to get into on this board. Just remember to tie a back-up knot to the anchor if you choose to disassemble the device! Thanks, Matt [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-12-2001).]

Jon, The best thing you can do is clip a sling to the weighted biner, then take the sling through the anchor and pull down on it. This should release the tension on the weighted biner. Then you can lower, and let go of the sling if you want to stop 'em. Make sense?? I know it sounds a little contrived, but it's the best that the Petzl Rep. could come up with as a solution to this problem.

Thats what Charlie told me, but I haven't seen it written down anywhere. He said the AMGA did pull tests on all the knots. The overhand is strongest, followed by the figure eight.

Did'nt you ever watch My Little Ponies! Geezz, get with it man! No,Moondancers are not the guys walking around the Dead Lot all covered in glitter... Dude, go rent the My Little Pony video. Then you will find out what moodancers are.

10) It really hurts when you pull the tape off. Especialy if you have hairy hands!

"As a general rule, it always better to use a cordelette to make the anchor. If something bad happens and you have to escape the belay, it is much easier to get out if your rope or daisies are not involved with the equalization of the anchor." Yeah I agree, but who wants to cary two cordelets? I use just a long sling to equalize the anchor, works just as good as the cordelette (you can do the same thing with it). I here those Web-o-letts work good. I'd also agree with keeping the rope out of the equalization system. Which is not what John Long teaches in his Anchors book.

Equalize the anchor points with double length runners. Use one big locker for your main point, and clip in with a figure eight. That is all you need, your rope won't break, keep it simple! The only draw back is that it does eat up extra rope (as Dru mentioned in another thread). If you have it, give your self enough slack to move around, but tie in close to the anchor with a clove hitch. Its important to be close (within reach)to the anchor in case you need to fix something, or escape the belay. If you have a cordelete, save it for a rescue situation (on a serious route that is). Or bring two cordelettes if you prefer building anchors with them. Self-rescue is a hell of alot easier if you have a cordelette to use. Belaying straight off the anchor is great if its convienient. I really like the new Reverso (petzl). Blah,blah...yes I'm bored and procrastonating my homework. I hope that helps though. It's the method I learned from C. Fowler. [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-11-2001).]

Need a Big Fat Poofy down coat? Black Diamond Shreiks w/leashes and new picks? Hey, sorry about that shit I said last spring, I had alot of unchaneled angst back then. Hope you had a good season in the Valley! Did we meet at the Lower Wall. I was drinkin beer and cam hooking up City Park, and you were climbin with your girl???? Wait, what do you mean by "most of those nights??" Like when it wasn't rainin'! [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-11-2001).]

The new metolious adjustable daisy chains are way better than the old Yates big buckle ones. And they eliminate the need for a fifi hook.

Two Flats, Yes, yes... but one more thing. I would argue that 2 or 3 feet of rope ain't a whole hell of alot more dynamic than a daisy chain. Ok, back to naked women.

I thought that trash just blew away at Vantage...oppps.

"Back when I was in High School, dry tooling was what you did if you couldn't find a date on Saturday night." -another classic Tackleism Thanks to Sean Issac for bringing that one up last night!

quote: Originally posted by Alpine Tom: And they'll figure out in about a second that you can make WAY more money selling camalots, nuts, hexes, etc etc etc than you can selling quickdraws. In a year or two, bolts will be about as fashionable as those knickers FB used to pose in back in the day. Dru is right, walls came into vouge in the mags bag in '95 or so. Now there is at least one Yosemite issue a year, and one Big wall story in each month. Keep your damn hands off my pony Dru! But, I'd disagree with Tom. I think Companies make a lot more money on quikdraws than they do on Trad gear, and not just 'cause they sell more of them. Think about it, the production cost is lower. They can stamp out 500 cheap biners in one shot. Plus, prison labor is pretty cheap these days. But alot more work, testing, machining, and assembling goes into a cam. The margines are lower on Trad stuff. Keep your hopes up, but bolts or SUV's aren't goin out of style anytime soon. [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-11-2001).]

Two-flats, Ahhh, I love this debate, allways two climbers and three opinions. First, the "damn" Sewn Loops are the proper place to clip into a daisy. That is ONE loop, not two right next to each other. By clipping into one you are essentialy clipping into one continous full strength runner. Do I use 'um? No. Why? Because they are just extra stuff, they get in the way and drive me crazy when I am fishing for extra biners. Unless your aiding, they are just extra weight. Are they safe? Yeah, they are totaly bomber as long as you clip into them properly. Of course, you should allways equalize all the anchor points as best possible. Clove Hitch- nice knot. But the AMGA does not condone using one as your main tie-in point. Why? Because in pull tests they slip around 400-600 lbs. Better to tie into the main point with a figure eight with a bunch of slack, then short tie with a clove hitch. I think the reason that you see so many people using them (usually new climbers), is that the guys at REI tell you that "It's just how you do it." Why? Guess how many daisies they sell a in year... Then there are allways the people who like lots of cool and important looking gear dangeling of their harnesses. Don't get me wrong, I wish I had my Daisy and a Fat Locker all those times I ended up clipping into the anchor with my chalkbag biner and a few nut wires threaded together! [This message has been edited by lambone (edited 10-11-2001).]

Suck My little Pony!hhehehehehehehe

quote: Originally posted by pope: Gee, Ima, just extrapolate your logic and we'll all be cutting buckets on the blank walls next to ROTC. Then, "chalange" would exist where once it did not! All I'm sayin, is that lines that climbers in the 80's could only dream of are now being climbed. No more waiting till one year when that fragile pillar might touch down. If you want it, train hard and get after it. More inportantly, fall off it-safely. These guys don't need to "cut buckets into blank walls," they got a jug in each hand that can edge like a dime. Ther will allways be a place for hard traditional mixed climbing in the mountains- but its like comparing apples to oranges. If the rock ain't gunna put out for gear, I say bolt it.

Hey Bonehead, Since when was was it possible for you to hear light? It happened to me once after a big bag 'o fungus!