Lambone

At least someone is... Just so ya know, I didn't want this thread to turn into a spary fest, but it just kinda spiraled down that slippery slope. I was just poking fun, not attacking you, Dwayner just likes blow everything I say way out of proportion. Anyway, I still think I caught you in a contradiction, but whatever...who cares right. As the diplomatic Scottp said, I shouldn't have used my opinion as a way to "snipe" you. I hope this thread, and your new trail to Snow Creek Wall die a nice quiet death. Peace out Pope.

Sorry dude, have a midterm tommorow..next week!

Just realized your planning to go solo...go for it! Definately doable. Rock shoes might be nice, depending on how comfortable you are with boots. I definately remember being happy that I carried them up there...but then again, I'm just a wimpy gym rat/sport tool. [ 05-07-2002, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

Yes, all the anchors should be there. Mostly slings around blocks and stuff. You might want to bring some leaver webbing. We brought an 37m 7.8mm rope and doubled it while simuclimbing. It worked fine, not sure about 25m, probably ok. The climbing is not sustained, just a few short sections. I'd say the routefinding is more difficult than the climbing. It makes you think a little, but its esentialy a ridge line. Don't worry about the climbing, worry about the weather and the altitude. Carry lite packs! I'm beginning to remember now. The steepest section is a chimmney 50ft 5.8 I think. Don't go up it, go out on the face to the right. Good cracks and the best rock on the route are found on that section. On the way down, rap the chimney, via. slings and be glad you didn't climb it. You'll see, its all there... I have approached via all three routes. The plateau is by far the fastest, and easiest, but very exposed and windy up there. The plateau will have less snow, if here is still snow in there by then. If you go in this way, you can summit and hike out in the same day easyily. We also went in from Phantom creek, out of East Rosebud. Longer, pretty hikinging...not a bad route, just more miles. You come up on the plateau from the east. Going out that way and back over will add an extra day to the trip. Some people go up to Avalance lake from Mystic. And start the climb from down in the canyon. This may be safer if weather is questionable, but it adds lots of time and effort on to summit day. plus its a talus scramble from hell. BIG talus... Also of interest, there is some good rock climbing near East Rosebud lake if you go in that way. Big Granite Towers everywhere, may be worth an extra couple of days to check out. Plus you can Go into Granite from Phantom creek. If you ski, or board, you must go to Beartooth Pass along the Beartooth Highway, via Red Lodge. It's the best roadside skiing in the country, hands down. Imagine the North Cascades Highway, only you park at the top! Two cars makes for many turns in a day. Shit there are a hundred things I could recomend to do around there...I wanna go back! Feel free to PM me or meet me at the gym if you want to talk about Granite more. [ 05-07-2002, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

OOOPPPPSSS, shit almost forgot. Bring a light axe! There is a steep snowfield that you must traverse to access the ridge benieth Tempest, you'd go a loooong way down with out one. Some people bring crampons. We didn't, there were steps already kicked in the snow, go light up there. There is also a small/easy snow bridge just before the technical ridge starts. It's not really a bridge, just some snow you have to walk across thats about 2 feet wide and ten feet long. It will be bigger in the spring. We ditched the boots and axe for rock shoes right after the snow bridge. Hope that helps...

Hi klenke, I've done that route a couple of times, it's sweet! Te climbinng itself isn't extrodanary, but the Beartooths are rad. It's a cool mountain all in all. I assume you are refering to the East Ridge. It is class four, but definately has some moves on if you fall you die terrain, maybe 5.6ish. There are sections that you, or at least I did not want to downclimb. We brought a light ope and a rack of nuts, maybe a couple of bigger hexes. The route finding is pretty straightforwar, but a bit tricky in places, look for the keyhole near the top. Shops in Bozeman can give you a better description. There wil not be any snow on the route unless you get stormed on. I think the best approach is up to Mystic Lake, and up the "death switchbacks" to the Froze to Death Plateau. You can camp on the plateau, there is intermitant water, but watch out for fragile vegetation. And LIGHTNING, I had a near death experience up there in may, lightning hits that plateau like World War III and there is no where to hide. There are bivuoac shelters built in the little saddle between Tempest Mt. and Granite. These are nice and flat, but no water, you will be closer on summit day though. Try to do the route on a weekday, and start early. It can get crowded with big groups, you don't want to be under people. The typical classic route situation... Watch out for the goats on the plateau, they want your salt and will stop at nothing to get it. I think they live on Nylon! Have fun dude, the Beartooths rock! I'm jealous!!

quote: Originally posted by Downhill: good point - albeit it's been awhile, there used to be plenty of slower parties on the regular route aiding and taking several days - it all has to go somewhere. Is it okay to shit down a route cause you're free climbing but not okay if aiding? No, I don't think it's justified to toss your shit if your free climbing, especialy onto a route... But I think lots of people do. Most people avoid hauling at ALL costs, and only spend one night on the Regular route. If it were me I hold it Or pack it up!

I leave you folks with one of George Bells awsome photos from the Yukon. Have a good one! [ 05-07-2002, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

quote: Originally posted by Retrosaurus: quote:Originally posted by Lambone: Is that because of the number of bolts on Snow Creek Wall? No. That is because Outerspace is a 5-star route. Engineer a moderate sport route, top to bottom on the wall and see what happens impact wise. Yeah, that was my point. It gets so much traffic because its an awsome crack climb. Same way smith gets traffic because its awsome for sport climbing. There is no difference. Would you agree that good crack climbs are a limited resource? At least localy. Ok, I think so. So lets say you took away the sport climbing areas in Washington. How much traffic would you see on Outerspace then, if the number of climbers remained the same? If there were less bolted areas right near the highway, there would be a greater human preasure on delicate wilderness areas at higher elivations. Which wildlife populations suffer from disturbance the most. rattlesnakes at Vantage, or Goats at Snow Creek and Perigrines at Midnight. See where I'm comin from?

quote: Originally posted by Cpt.Caveman: You guys all are wankers- I can drink more alcohol than Dwayner in a one sit contest. I can chop bolts faster than Pope too. Lambone has no idea how to be a spray king like me. I am going to chop some bolts and defacate in the Muir hut then head over and climb up through all the falcon infested crags. Dude, your totaly right... When you spray, people laugh...ok, well some people do. When I spray, all of a sudden everyone hates me. Have I not earned the right to be an asshole? The only reason I spray on Dwayner and Pope is 'cause no one else hardly does. I think I have a right to disagree with their opinions and attitudes. I don't see why that makes me miserable and course. We see things two different ways, and I enjoy debating about who's way is right. But then they have to go and take everything so personaly...you guys used to be fun to argue with, now your just a couple of dull tools.

by the way, that wasn't spray...

Scroll up, pope brought you into this with his first post. And you were the one who ranted my ear off at the bar about the environmental impacts of bolts.

malapropism n : the unintentional misuse of a word by confusion with one that sounds similar Yup, but I think you know what I meant...you gotta love MS Word. Sorry you think what I wrote is just a bunch of wasted bandwith...I suppose you are right. [ 05-07-2002, 11:20 AM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

Um dude, we are talking about the Direct, not the Regular...

I'm not really trying to rag on Pope here..., ok, well sort of. The real point I am making is that while bolts have no direct environmental impact other than aesthetic quality, making new trails all over the place does. Pope justifies the trail because it is a "game migration route," which will be less prone to erosion. Maybe this is true, maybe not. Maybe erosion isn’t the largest issue here, lets look at it another way... One could also call a "game trail" a wildlife corridor. When humans encroach on wildlife corridors, migration patterns may be affected. So you may say big deal…so some dear will move to the other side of the hill. But keep in mind, the ecosystem is a fragile web interrelated factors. Disturbed migration in turn could effect predator/prey interaction, mating cycles, feeding patterns etc., etc. Anyone who used to watch Marty Stauffer’s “Wild America” should be able to list a few other ecological concerns. All I’m saying, is that we should consider this before we go and “blitzkrieg” a new highway up to Snow Creek Wall. I’m not saying that climbers shouldn’t bushwhack…, but we are talking about perhaps the most popular climb in Washington here. That alone makes this area particularly sensitive, and this climbers trail very important to consider. If we as climbers want to be considered stewards of the environment, then we must closely examine the impacts of our own actions, and the effects of those actions on the environment we want to preserve. (ok, sorry this is getting long winded) So here is my gripe with pope (keep in mind, I have never met actually pope), and I realize some may think I’m an “asshole” or “tool” for saying this, but too bad. This is a guy who openly calls sport climbers a plague on our sport/lifestyle/whatever… He calls bolts “alien to the mountain environment,” yet here on this public forum he is offering information, condoning, suggesting, whatever you want to call it…, that we should blaze a new trail (up a wildlife corridor) to Snow Creek Wall because the old one takes too long and is in poor condition. Now you tell me, which is more “alien” to the mountain environment in this case? What I propose is that Pope, and Dwayner, two self proclaimed ethical/traditional/environmentalist climbers, are so caught up with their own resentment towards bolts/sport-climbers that they do not even think to consider the outcomes of their own actions. And yet they continue to slam sport climbers… Does anyone else see the hierocracy here, or am I just being a “tool?”

Word is you've drilled a few holes in your time..., but I'll let that dead horse rest. A while ago I recal you saying,(pardon me if the wording is not exact), something about how sport climbers lead to the degredation of climbing areas, because they tend to litter, not follow trails, chip holds, drill bolts, steal gear, ect. Yet here you are recomending that people forge their own route up to Snow Creek Wall, via, some discrete game trail. As if that human activite has no environmental impacts. Sorry if I sound like an asshole for pointing this out, but I'm just tryin to figure you out man... Cheers, have a good night.

Cool...yeah, obviously I was just trying to pick out another contradiction between what you practice and what you preach, but alas my evil plot was foiled. Sounds legit enough...yet I doubt Larry the Tool would aprove. How about some more specific details about this alternate route? When do you cut up from the main trail to access that contour? Pardon my ignorance, I haven't been up there yet. Sure would be nice o have a faster route when I carry my drill and bag'o bolts up to Snow Creek wall this summer.

Don't worry caveman...you wont see me there. Index is too tempting after being in the car for an hour. I've only climbed in Leavenworth once on a weekday, otherwise it sounds like a zoo.

So here is a question Mr. "bolts are bad for the environment," What kinda trail is this your talkin about? Is it established? Switchbacks? Or is it just another climber's scar leading from point A to point B in the shortest time possible? Just curious, thanks in advance for the clarification.

quote: Originally posted by sk: I'm affraid you are mistaking this for the mir on saterday thred... tool Yo, the whole "tool" thing was way overplayed like three days ago. Pick a new word boy wonder... [ 05-06-2002, 08:25 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

sure..you could call me that! Look out all you cc.comers who dare call me a tool! I clip nuts for fun [ 05-06-2002, 08:28 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

ummm...im not sure, whats that mean not in el dictionario

quote: Originally posted by pope: Reminds me of a guy I know who is embarassed of his bad habit, trying to find a little moral support by getting his friends hooked. [/QB] That's funny , only I'm not embarassed about clipping bolts. Why am I not embarassed...because I have clipped far more nuts than bolts.

I second Harding, Royal was a fuckin hypocrite route snake... Becky would be my third pick.

John Muir...he was the shit. imagine being the first white guy to tromp around the Range of Light.