mattp

Yes. Skyline Rib / Skyline Arete are closed for nesting. Climbers are asked to avoid these areas and also to move away from other areas if they notice that the falcons are getting agitated and demonstrating territorial behavior like dive bombing. Speaking of which, I was side-swiped by a crow in Ballard the other day.

Vickster, have you ever bought a pack from McHale? I have bought three of them and he never once told me "you have a 22" spine," or whatever. I have offered a similar pack for sale on cc.com and was asked the same question: what size back is it for and I confessed that I don't know but I am 5'11 and I don't think my spine is abnormally long or short for someone of my size. Maybe I'm a moron too and if I really want to sell the pack I should probably go figure out McHale's measurement method but there is no need for you to add gratuitous insults.

Hey, some of my best friends live in Tacoma.

How else do you explain the fact that it took you so long to figure out that Bush was a liar or that you still think there is a debate about whether global warming is real in the scientific community? You constantly accuse "my side" of intolerance and manipulation but you can't cling to these and similar views based on any application of critical thought or independent review of the information available. Remember our discussion of the Florida election results? I pointed out over and over again that the source you were citing did not say what you said it did, and it took something like a day and a half for you to go back and read the article to find out I was right. I'm not sure it is a matter of me smart you dumb but it appears you don't readily question your assumptions. Did you misread that New York times article (I think it was NYT) or did somebody write somewhere that "even the NYT says that ...." and list that article as their source?

I hear you, Bug, but the lunatic fringe seems to control the center of the Republican voter fringe. Just ask Arianna Huffington. Its not Fairweather's fault, he's being manipulated by puppet strings.

That's funny. You posted one of her stories just the other day. Maybe you didn't notice that she was on TV and Radio shows last week, and she made some decent points. I thought you'd want to hear about it and I used this thing called Google to find a reference so you wouldn't slam me for making something up.

If we didn't engage with anybody who had a predictable opinion, there wouldn't be much traffic around here, Bug. After five years, I agree that some of the novelty is worn off but even FW can come up with some pretty interesting stuff now and then. Here, however, he just reminded me that I haven't seen anyone in this thread or on radio or TV say that Bush, Rove or Cheney are denying any specific allegations that McClellan made. Hmmm.

Weren't you just the other day calling me names and accusing me of making things up when I actually acknowledged that I was guessing, Fairweather? I don't read Huffington Post or the Stranger, and I have not "regularly" called for government intervention in news reporting -- if anything I have complained about our government's too much intervention in news reporting for the last seven years or so. Yes, I did (once) say that somebody should have been held responsible for deliberately putting distortion in a broadcast that was presented as a documentary on national television. Whether it should be in the form of some kind of civil liability, fine, or criminal sanction, I believe there should be some incentive against this. Hell: I believe the President and his men should be held responsible for their lies, too. But don't worry: I'm not calling for Fox News to be shut down because their story I cited at the start of this thread was so clearly spin that it was a joke.

What he said!

Rob, different rocks and different types of rock are different. I understand your notion that rap bolting is cheating, but I would have to say that a strict adherence to ground-up first ascents often produces lousy crag climbs. In Darrington, almost all of the best routes there have been established through some combination of ground up and rappel bolting or exclusively rappel bolting. All of what I consider to have been the worst eyesores there, including several that are peppered with bolts and that virtually nobody climbs or has any affinity for, were established purely from the ground up.

What are you trying to say here? Who is talking about nobility and when did I say that Bush started the war so that Haliburton could get rich? Do you seriously disagree with the idea that Bush and Co shaded the truth, even if you bristle at the word lie? Or are you just being JayB and punching at straw men again.

Oh, and it would not in my opinion be "refreshing" at all to simply say it is time to move on now. Clearly, we don't want something like this to happen again.

C: all of the above.

That WOULD be refresshing, KK, but in this case it would be idiotic if by that you mean we shouldn't question their motives or methods in selling the war. I'm willing to cede that they probably thought they were doing what was best for the country, but the history is very clear that they decided to attak Iraq first and made up a justification second. link Look up "aluminum tubes." Try AlQueda in Prague. Niger Uranium purchase. In all three of these specific cases the administration presented "evidence" that they knew was at least questionnable if not downright incorrect. Remember how Condi Rice told us we'd see a mushroom cloud in Manhattan, when the only people who had actually been in Iraq and knew about Saddam's program said he had none? I'm willing to concede that Bush and company probably thought they were making a good decision, but you'd be an idiot if you didn't conclude they lied about it and some kind of blind idealogue if you now argue that it is "right" for them to have lied about it.

Check this out White House Officials Decry McClellan Claims About Administration According to Fox, McClellan didn't say Bush lied; and McClellan didn't say Bush lied; and oh yes, McClellan didn't say Bush lied. In an article about the White House decryimg McClellan's claims, there is no mention of what the claims were - like that Bush used propaganda to sell the war or that Bush, Cheney, Rove and Armitage mislead him so McClellan gave false statements about the Plame story. Have they actually denied any of the specific allegations made by McClellan?

If you got 'em, I want em. Send me a P.M.

You guys talk as if "ego" is some shameful thing. Ego can simply drive someone to take some pride in what they do, it doesn't necessarily mean they become a raging lunatic control freak or attention whore or whatever else it is that you think of when you talk about someone on an ego trip. Climbers develop crag routes with a variety of motivations and personal styles but in general I think we WANT folks to be personally invested in it.

I htought that might have been what he was getting at but he didn't say it. I guess my lack of knowledge about the medical specialties means he might argue I'm not qualified to even try to learn enough to make an informed choice as a patient?

Not necessarily. I guess you assume his SAT scores or other aspects of his prior academic performance must not have been "up to par?"

Puget: would you run from a cardiologist/surgeon even if you knew you needed the surgery and believed him to be the doctor most capable of performing the operation?

Just what criteria is that? I don't think I'd search for a cardiologist that was so old and frail he might collapse on the operating table, who wants to sell me all the latest heart pumps from the company he has owned stock in for 50 years whether they will be good for me or not, and who freely acknowleges that he hasn't bothered to learn about the pulmonary troubles that accompany my heart condition.

I'm with you, sexy, except that I don't endorse a 6 month time limit in all cases (of course my favorite crag, Exfoliation Dome, is more or less inaccessible for 6 months a year and the project there is way more exploration and labor-intensive than a 100' cliff band at Vantage, so maybe that impacts my "ethics"). 4 of my 5 new crag routes took at least a couple of years and at least ten visits before anybody got the red point. BUT [disclaimer=I don't know the story] 2 years without any change, or any proclamation of change from the local Senator Obama, sounds like it is abandoned to me.[/disclaimer]

Are you kidding, Gary? If he'll lie about this he'll probably lie about authorizing torture or maybe he'll be a flip flopper and won't stand for change after all. Worse, he might have an affair with an intern named Hope.

I use 600 x 800 for trip reports. For gallery photo's, 1024 x 768 is more ideal and the software automatically creates a mid-sized photo for the trip report.

The "rules" regarding first ascents and projects are just another set of made up rules like much else about rock climbing. It is not really a matter of ethics so much as whether you want to play the game. I'm not saying these traditions are trivial; they are not. The taboo about poaching lines is based on the assumption that somebody has put a significant investment into the line - time, sweat, and maybe $. Sure, you could argue that this doesn't mean they own the line and you'd be right. But all other things being equal, you’d be kind of rude and selfish to jump on it. You could go out and find some other new line but somebody else has done the initial exploration and development and you would be depriving that person of an expectation that most who climb in the area would say they had a right to. Also like other rules in rock climbing, there are other considerations. How long has the route sat idle? Is there reason to think the original party has given up? Last time we had this discussion on cc.com there were time limits and other factors discussed but it seemed to boil down to some kind of sniff test because everybody had different criteria and applied them differently. Still, the basic idea that we ought to let them give it their best shot at the first send if someone is putting the effort into a new line is not a bad one, in my book.