mattp

I'm guessing this stuff is probably 15 years old: Dynastar Competition skis, 210 (approximately) Volkl Weltcup skis, 210 (approximately) Both mounted with Tyrolia 390 bindings. Soloman SX 91 ski boots (rear entry), size 9? (I can't get my feet into them) 2 pairs 135 cm ski poles, one with shock absorbing springs. All these items belonged to the late Larry Kemp. All are available for minimal cost - with proceeds to go to the Washington Climbers Coalition. Make an offer.

It seems to me that few and maybe even nobody is/are arguing that this bolt belay on Orbit is in a good location. Pope has stated that it might be good to maintain a bolted belay there just in case somebody is in the area and has run out of gear, but I think that is the closest anybody has come to saying “we actually want bolts right there.” I think Brwts is probably correct in stating that the only reason there are bolts in that location is because two guys ran out of rope there fifty years ago. I understand and generally agree with the arguments against adding bolts to the climb, but if there is in fact a better location fifteen feet or fifteen meters above, it might actually be better to move them. Wouldn’t leaving them as they are or removing them be preferable to replacing them with new hardware that is expected to last thirty years or more?

Classic!

Hey, we're just trying to have a little fun around here. Why don't you tell us YOUR version of proper Constitutional law, or self defense strategies?

Nope. They speak slogans like "outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns" and spew obvious baloney like "We'd all be safer if all law-abiding citizens owned a gun" and talk about how unarmed grandmas are such common targets for meth heads.

It is not "semantics." It is much closer to "plain English." However, your right to self defense is an old concept from English common law and it is written into our criminal code, so you are safe in your belief that you may protect yourself appropriately. At least for now. One day we may get some common sense and try to reduce the # of guns in circulation.

Don't start this again. The Second Amendment says nothing about keeping or carrying weapons for personal protection.

If there was hot coffee available, I'd buy a cup!

It has been a couple of years since I've done the route, but I have done the climb twice and I don't believe we belayed at that station either time. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that didn't look like a great belay location. Isn't the fact that the bolts are there the only real reason to belay at that point? Does the topo showing bolts, or the visibility of the station from below cause parties to skip the good stance at the large ledge that is maybe a half pitch below? On balance, I tend to agree with those who say that they should be good ones if there are bolts there at all, but I'm also not sure it might be just as well to simply remove them. If you did find yourself running out of rope and didn't have the gear needed to set a belay in the small cracks at that particular location, you could set a hanging belay at some other spot nearby where there are cracks of some other dimension. I know, some say we should keep them for history's sake, but I am not real hot on this idea.

We'll all be trading in our wardrobes every few years for the latest thing probably as long as we climb or as long as we think of ourselves as climbers. The new generation of softshell clothing is very comfortable, and looks great, but in reality it doesn't function all that much differently from a cheap windbreaker and a pair of old slacks from salvation army. I'm not trying to be overly cynnical. Yes, the softshells stretch, shed water well, and are somewhat tough - but are they worth $100 for a pair of pants and $200 for a jacket? Maybe but not necessarily. You'll make it up and down The Tooth or Mount McKinley either way.

TimL, it would be a better place for this kind of discussion if a broader range of people were willing to participate here. I think I can understand your hesitance but your viewpoint would only add to the discussion.

Cat Butt? Throbbing Gristle? Gas Huffer?

A couple of Kegs from Terminal Gravity, video equipment lent by Ketch, and a (not small) bit of organizational effort from OlyClimber made this a great event! Thanks to them, and thanks to those who prepared visual presentations or some other contribution! Thanks, too, to all those who went out of their way to show up or otherwise pitch in a bit of assistance. A good time was had by all and we managed to do some climbing as welll!!!

Lets all give a hand to KETCH! Not only did he trust us to take care of his equipment, he took four ferry rides and drove at least four hours just so we could have a digital projector and screen. Tonight, he was taking a ferry and driving at least an hour each way to pick up the stuff he lent us. And he couldn't even attend the event! Thanks, Ketch.

TimL writes: I'm not following you here. Doesn't the availability of a rappel anchor make this initial bit of Japanese Gardens an easily climbed/returned-to-the-ground option for those looking for 5.10-? How is that not making that bit of rock "accessible?" How would removing all fixed anchors promote "access?" I probably don't disagree with you, but I'm unclear on these points.

Dueling leads on easy terrain is one man's crowd, another man's party. I have always enjoyed sharing belay ledges and climbing with other parties where the terrain makes this comfortable - as is the case at the top of Orbit/Mary Jane.

I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that at the first pro bolt, you can move straight up instead of doing a dangerous 5.7 move down and left? We stepped down and moved left on friction knobs, and I thought it was .10a. You must have some very sticky shoes!!! I followed it, but I didn't think it seemed as if the lead at that point would have been particularly scary. I think I would have been happy to have that good bolt after some sketchy pro in chockstones and flakes. Anyway, it is a cool climb. Definitely worthy, though there is a reason Outer Space and Orbit are more popular. Here, I've cleaned up the drawing and changed it to GIF format. I've also added that additional belay and bolt (I was thinking it might be a good plan to try skipping station #3, but probably a better idea would be to skip what I show here as #4 - that is what we did on Saturday and what Telemarker recommends):

I was in the party right behind you. Are you asking about the first bolt-protected move where we stepped down and out, away from the corner, onto a sloper left foot? Or the second move, right off that hanging belay? Might there be a "straight up" possiblity at the first one? We didn't take any info, and upon getting home I've looked at several old guidebooks and have found nothing that shows any detail. Here's my sketch.

It was too big for me to want to mess with it but then on neither occasion did I go up there looking for logging work and carrying proper tools for the job. I don't know how big, but I bet it was at least 10" at the butt end. I think the last time I was up there was probably five years ago, so perhaps it is gone by now or otherwise broken off or something that would make it easier to deal with.

It was nice seeing everybody. It was fun climbing, too. The party should be on at the Porter house, because Keg #2 (the Porter), was barely dented. I have Ketch's projector and screen and stuff. Is anybody headed up to Orcas Island?

I used to do the route quite regularly, and checking the 1993+ Clint Cummins book I think we were doing the pitch of Ten Percent beyond there, because I remember it being two pitches. Some time maybe five or ten years ago, a tree fell onto the route and made it kind of scary - at least for me. I went back once or twice but didn't like climbing over the dead tree, hanging precariously. I haven't been back.

Sorry there, Ben. As several have pointed out to me in email and private messages, I should simply have locked the discussion three pages ago. This argument didn't belong in a route report thread. If you want to discuss bolting issues, there is an ongoing thread in the Rock Climbing forum or you can sit down and write your own brilliant essay to kick of a new one.

Sorry you won't make it, Kurt. If you change your mind, let me know. I'll pick you up.

I've got plenty of old climbing ropes. Doesn't everybody? How many do you need?

Can somebody tell me how to get in contact with James Nakagami? Thanks.