mattp

Ah, but I do. Sleep well, my friend. The whole Bush team is looking our for your wellfare and you needn't worry about a thing.

Correct you are that I overlooked his quoted bit, but I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here.

He works at it, or at least works at playing a moron on cc.com. For example, Fairweather references the "rove threads," as some kind of evidence of folks passing unfair judgment on cc.com in the Plame Leak case, but has steadfastedly refused to acknowledge that in fact at least two reporters other than his get-out-of-jail-free-guy have said, and nobody has denied, that Rove gave them the leak. Further, he has never acknowledged that Rove has made a career out of this kind of stuff. Instead, he's constantly typed some indignant "puleeze, ..." and acted as if anybody who thinks Carl Rove would play dirty tricks or manipulate media spin is some kind of paranoid deluusional -- just like he did for three years whenever anybody argued that Bush lied to take us into the war... Though one might argue the whole thing was overplayed, or has taken some extraordinary turns, anybody who would think poor Carl was maligned undeservedly is surely stoopid, and I don't think our Fairweather is one of those folks. He gets the "straight scoop" on cc.com, after all....how dumb can he be?

I like the Ragin Cajun at Shultzy's. Is anybody going to be confused by the fact that we've moved the venue three times?

There is a lattice kind of taping structure you can apply to reduce the mobility of your ankle and guard against pulling on injured tendons. I have seen it quite effective in allowing people to keep moving on even a medium bad sprain and, if the continued movement is not too extreme, I have even seen climbers make progress toward healing while continuing to hike and climb. I think it is illustrated in Medicine for Mountaineering. However, even using some kind of protective aid like tape you are likely (maybe certain) to prolong healing. If the climb(s) is(are) important enough I would go for it. I've done stupider things. If not, stay home. A sensible peson would stay home and watch TV or maybe take your friend out for dinner or something.

One question that occurs to me: The fist ascent princple is probably the "absolute" that it is (at least for some) because the assumption has always been that the FA's were not using as many bolts as subsequent people might desire, and also that the FA's most likely placed whatever bolts or fixed pins in sensible places. How do you feel if the FA OVERBOLTED (by your standard) a route, or if the FA just plain did a BAD JOB and put things in the wrong place? And what if the FA COMES BACK to retrobolt in a style that you now find excessive? If you are one that argues that it is "accepted rule" that we honor the style of the first ascent and that any subsequent alterations are up to the first ascensionist, do you still follow this rule? Is the "FA Rule" something that only applies in one direction, that is does it only weigh in favor of adding no more additional bolts or no moving of existing placements? It generally seems to be promoted as such. By this I mean that plenty of people who cry foul about this or that bolt or belay station that has been added to an existing line are in full support of removing bolts from something they consider to have been overbolted on the first ascent, and I often think it is odd that where somebody may have placed a bolt in an inconvenient or possibly "stoopid" location on first ascent we are hesitant to "correct" it even, in some cases, where maintaining the mistake is in many ways more obtrusive than fixing it.

Largely, I agree. However, once in a while and maybe in spite of some folks' efforts to keep it otherwise, we occasionally exchange real ideas or information on cc.com. I have learned a great deal from the discussion here. Many of you may feel it is silly or naive to expect serious or constructive or even tangentially beneficial discussion on a website like this, and I recognize the reality that many people are here for fun rather than education, but I continue to extend sincere congratualtions and thumbs up to anybody who cares to discuss bolting or any other "hot" topic on this forum in an honest fashion. I don't mean any insult to you, Korrigan, or anybody else. I'm simply saying that honest and thoughtful discussion can coincide alongside the playful or inane. This thread has been realtively "on target" compared to others. Cool.

I have seen more than one report indicating that security has not improved. Here is an example: msnbc 2005 I think Tvash mention of the recent intelligence estimate is hinting that there, too, it has been concluded that we are not doing a good job on security. Heckovajob, Bushie.

You're right. I was looking at the first link I got searching moon phases 2006 and it was loading a 2000 calendar. I didn't notice I was looking at the wrong year. It's gonna be dark out. Rope up is 13-15 October.

Chuck's just pointing this out because he never gets to go out UNTIL 9:00. A bit of "show and tell" sounds fun. And we can make plans for the following weekend's rope-up. It'll be full moon on Friday night - you gonna go climbing or simply howl at the moon?

Tough times call for tough measures, perhaps, but I think we've lost our way when we decide to abandon the Geneva Coventions, launch an aggressive program of domestic spying, invade and occupy nations who pose no threat to us, and bully even our allies in response to what are criminal acts by a relatively small number of extremists. It seems that by most accounts it isn't going to work and further it is just plain wrong. We have certainly gone from being a nation that was respected and even admired around the world to one that is merely tolerated or, worse, feared. And we know that our time on top is limited. I respect anybody like Jim who wants to take some time to try to contribute to the making of a statement about this.

I could bring one if anybody needs an old-fashioned slide projector.

Yup. That looks pretty sweet!!! I should say, however, that I bought an S-80 a year ago, and had the dreaded Canon E-18 error after less than a month and only about 300 shots, all indoors. This SD800 has a different lens retraction mechanism, and hopefully it will not to be prone to this same problem.

I have found it quite enjoyable at this time of year. There will be a couple hundred feet of steep, possibly icy snow near the top - in a place where you better not fall but it is fairly short and in reality not more than moderately steep though it will get your attention (as well it should). Be prepared for thousands of feet of rock hopping.

Here's a picture that shows a slightly different angle. It also shows Scott's "4:00 rock" off to the right. Sorry about the poor quality.

I believe the third pitch, if my memory is correct, heads up a blunt rib left of the "A" pitch on Tidbits. There are maybe three or four bolts heading up the rib, and for years there was a blue poot sling on the top one. It always looked like an obvious place to bail, as there was little in the way of features apparent beyond that point (except maybe one could do the Darrington-dive-for-the-bushes thing). I don't know anybody who has actually tried it - if that is "the route." Above that, I have poked around a bit and I didn't see any sign of prior passage. If it does as Scott envisions, it would probably closely parallel the last pitch of Tidbits, and then hit the steeper wall above which is the highest "clean" looking piece of rock in the photo he posts. I've looked at that from below, and it looks worthy of exploration. I would be surprised if you found much sign of the McKillop expedition.

Catbird - are you sure it was the Montlake residents who on their own were able to kill the project? Might it have been more complicated than that? And might somebody be tempted to point the finger at "nimby's" to try to generate political support for the idea that large projects should not be so heavily scrutinized?

Yeah, the precious UW Rock is very important. I think they should just can the entire project right now.

Yup. On the one hand, it is only natural that we are all going to pay closer attention to things in our own neighborhood than a similar project slated to be built accross town somewhere. We are also more likely to be impacted by the project planned for our neighborhood so not only are we likely to know more about it, we are also entitled to have our comments given greater weight than those of someone who lives accross town. On the other hand, there is the selfish motivation to do what protects our property values at the expense of everybody else. From what I know of discussions about this project, the Montlake neighborhood residents are not the only group expressing concerns about this project. Parks and open space advocates, the University, Arboretum supporters, and people on various sides of the build more/less roads debate are among those who are talking about it. Also U Village. On balance, I think it is a good thing if these kinds of stakeholders are involved and not just the Washington Department of Transportation, highway contractors, and the Mayor's office.

You also have to keep your eye off the target. When the snake is preparing to bite the frog, he doesn't look at it. I bet few of the mods asked to become mods. Maybe none of them.

Fern gives a good answer here, but I'll add a different view - though the basic point I'm adding is that "it depends" rather than a disagreement. Depending on how you are managing your climb, the engineering of a "power point" may not be necessary. Given what I think is the premise of your post - you are at a station where there are two bolts installed near each other and probably side-by-side, you can simply clip into one with a knot on your lead rope and "back-up" to the other with a sling or your personal leash connecting your harness to the other. This may save a few 'biners in the process as well as eliminate extra links in the chain between you and the rock. If you have extra climbers, or want to hang a pack, or if the climber who lead the previous pitch is going to lead the next one, or for some other reason I have not thought of but in the interest of promoting the flexibility that Fern notes is desireable, I often put a "master biner" on the bolts at the belay (preferably locking one's, if I have them handy), and then clip to these biner's anything I am attaching there. This allows me to move things around, to leave the belay or do whatever it is I might subsequently want to do without having to unweight or unclip something I don't want to unweight or unclip. You could use a draw in this fashion, but I usually don't want to "waste" a draw for this purpose, and the use of a draw probably only introduces an extra 6" and an extra 'biner into the system. Having said this, though, I handle the belays differently based on a variety of factors and sometimes the cordelette or engineering of a "power point" with slings is a good way to keep things clean.

I linked The Tooth, Alpental Falls, Camp Muir, and Arrowhead Peak, and then took a solem oath never to disclose how the selection process is run.

I believe you are wrong on both counts there, Catbird. Those who have been given the silver chalice have neither been acquaintances of nor necessarily liked by those who grant the moderator status.

I really like the bush movie. If you guys will give me "rights," maybe I'll add a link to it on the Darington Rock Climbing website.

I too have been unhappy with the "lifetime" of my five ten shoes although I used to buy them exclusively for the rubber. Lately I have found a good fit with some Sportiva's, and I have wide EE feet though my heels are relatively narrow. But my most recent pair of Sportiva's has stretched and softened up distrubingly fast and I am not convinced they are necessarily going to last longer (though it was a "cheaper" model that I cannot remember the name of). My old Kaukulators are pretty good, though.