mattp

We used to have those, but in this new age trials just help the terrorists. All we gotta do is say that Rove is an enemy noncombatant.

Space Station Belay Filth Pitch Buttrest Granite Sidewalk Ringing Flake Lower Lump

I have an SD reader installed in my computer. I bet I can burn you a CD. The Canon SD-800 is a great camera, pocket sized, that takes wider angle shots than most of the little guys.

That's what I'm trying to do. And you can watch.

My point is that you are whining about bad bolts, and the deadly belay stations you complained about had (by your description) a 3/8" biolt and two 1/4's. You state that an entire crag is "rotting away" with bad bolts, but in fact probably half the routes there, and certainly half the ones that anybody wants to do, have new hardware. I haven't asked for any big accolades, but information about what we find when replacing old bolts is probably of interest to other posters on this board, even if you aren't interested in it. Bolts that you know are bad and which you placed remain on a route you put up at Three O'Clock Rock and you are attacking me over just what, exactly? That I have been replacing old bolts and you (apparently) have not? Why don't you quit your bitching and come camping next week so maybe we can finish replacing the old bolts on your old climb? There are some Leeper hangers on a route far more popular that I would replace first, but yours should probably be on "the list." We might even have some fun along the way.

I am well aware of the recall, Mark.

Yes, Toxic Shock is a good moderate. If you do the first half of it via the Even Steven line, it is a very easy 5.9 - one of the few "give away" routes at Index.

Mark, I'm well aware of the recall. I've been actually replacing those things for that reason - for ten years. I heave even helped replaced some bolts and hangers on a route that you initally installed at Three O'Clock Rock and I didn't take notes but had you placed Leepers or maybe SMC hangers or something? Old hardware is all over the place. I'm in favor of replacing it. Now: shouldn't I ship this exchange to Spray? This is getting silly.

I'm sorry you are offended by my post, Mark. I certainly said nothing any more snide than your quip: "This has been common knowledge for about 15 years." If you ever want to go back and replace bolts some time, let me know. I have spent several days up there doing bolt replacement already and most of those those three bolt belay stations on On-Line, while not an extreme safety nightmare in my view, are certainly ugly and ripe for some improvement.

Mark McKillop: Thanks for the information that as many as one in a hundred Leeper hangers may be bad. Do you want to help replace some of them some time?

Yes, you can go around the Aries flaring chimney via what the topo shows as Taurus. It works out just fine. The rap from the tree shown as the top of pitch 3 of Great Northern works out fine (I can't remember - is there maybe a bolt anchor up there too?). That third pitch of Taurus is pretty fun for what appears from the ledge to be an unappealing start, and that top pitch on Pisces is fairly tricky for the grade.

I have replaced a lot of old 5/16 buttonheads. Nearly all of them are quite bomber and they can be a real bitch to get out. I bet less than one in twenty turns out, when you start hammering and prying on it, to seem like it wasn't perfectly good. I don't know how dangerous those old recalled Leeper hangers are, but I haven't seen any of these fail or indicate weakness as I was prying on them trying to remove an old bolt, either. Those old split-shank quarter inch studs, however, can be pretty scary! I'd be happy to help replace some of that old mank, too, but be prepared for some hard work.

Brown and Roach 1954 is one of the best Jazz albums ever.

Change plans based on updated information?

That's a little harsh, Mark. Aren't there at least two 3/8" bolts at all the belays on On Line? Yes, the stations look like crap but A-3 is pushing it, wouldn't you say? Anyway, I told Catbird to skip On Line and head over to do Fuddhat/Kill da Wabbit. It is more fun and the anchors are all new. Everybody does On Line not because it is the best route there but largely because it is the first thing you come to. And it IS classic slab climbing. For general information, many of the routes at Static and most of the better ones have decent hardware but there certainly is a need for more replacement up there. We replaced anchors and pro bolts on at least two or three of the routes up at Tombostone Ledge a couple of years ago, The Piller has new hardware as does that new route Brian did, Shock Treatment, Fuddhat, ... Cramer's Sky Valley Rock does a good job covering Static Point.

KK- I thought you had me on ignore.

Jesus, Jay. Get over yourself and your “straightforward questions.” You type 800 words of nonsense, trying to get us myopic liberals to trip over ourselves, get pissy when we don’t want to play your game, and you state nothing. I don’t know the “best way” to deal with “bad” nations, OK? There certainly is not any one “ethically and diplomatically sound way to deal with unsavory, undemocratic regimes” and any attempt by me to answer the question you’ve posed would be loony except to state, as I have, that we should NOT proclaim to the world that we are the lone superpower and everybody else is either “with us or against us,” because that is guaranteed to spark resistence by friend and foe alike. Instead, we should be seeking working relationships with our allies, traditional and temporary. We should NOT be making speeches about how Islam is the root of all evil. Instead, we should be seeking to get the world including moderate Muslims to help us isolate and prosecute the terrorists as the criminals that they are. We should NOT be proclaiming to the world that the Geneva Conventions do not apply to us, and maintaining programs of detention and torture that virtually nobody says have done us any real good except your retired Surgeon quoted above who says that the people held in Guantanimo or tortured at Abu Graib or elsewhere were the same people who gassed the Kurds. Instead, we should be making a big display about how we treat prisoners fairly and respect the rule of international law. As far as I know, there have been few if any interrogation experts who have said we gain much useful information through the torture, and I havn't heard even the Whitehouse spokesman argue we've made great progress in the war on terror through our holding of the enemy noncombatants at Guantanimo without trial, formal charges, etc. that we couldn't have made without a more - as you put it - "politically correct" detention. Where we have a problem with Iran, for example, we need to figure out a way to engage them and to get other nations in the region to help us at least contain them - rattling our nukes is not going to solve the problem. I suppose we could actualy nuke them into submission, but do you argue that this would be a good idea? Remember, even your Air Force surgeon argues that these fanatical terrorists are not going to stop trying to kill us - so clearly we need not only a strong military but we also need the help of their cousins and brothers if we are going to stop or reduce their activity. As to the rest of your ridiculous post, Tvash has answered the heart of it pretty well. Now: before you respond with some 800 word series of circular questions, how about you tell us what YOU think should be the U.S. policy?

Jclark, thanks for bringing some real world experience into the discussion. I think few of us have any doubt that much that drives radical Islamic terrorism is based in a religious fanaticism that will persist whether we fight them or not, and certainly it is clear that the war was mismanaged. However, I don’t think the ongoing fanatical element means there is no benefit in seeking to build allies among more moderate Muslims or considering whether our actions abroad will be perceived as selfish, immoral, or ill-advised by even our allies. JayB and others talk in circles trying to make the point that if you worry about the politics of our policies in this manner you cannot be focused on addressing the fanatics, but I don’t think anything could be further from the truth: where we alienate both our longstanding traditional allies and our temporary friends in a current conflict with tough-guy go-it-alone rhetoric, blanket statements of disrespect for all Muslims, or statements from the very top of our administration that we are going to use torture – followed by that reality on the ground - we are weakening our ability to get after the truly bad guys. We need all the help we can get if, as you say, the terrorism we fight is rooted in religious fundamentalism that is not going away. Bombs and combative rhetoric is not going to stop it. And, as to the lies that Bush used to get us into the war, I am very surprised to hear ANYBODY still claim he didn’t lie. It is well documented that they cherry picked intelligence to bolster the argument that Saddam was a threat and ignored copious information that he really was not much of a threat. Remember the aluminum tubes that the Bushies said were for centrifuges when the experts said they were not suitable? The alleged meeting with Al Queda for which there was no evidence in support? The Uranium purchase in Africa that they’ve admitted should not have been in the SOU? The “pipeline” whereby intelligence information supporting claims of weaponry were skimmed off the top and denied the normal scrutiny whereas information debunking those claims was buried? Remember the statements of AlBaradi that there was no nuclear weapons program? Ho about the claim that there was an active terrorist training camp on the Iran border when all there was were some sheep herders? What happened to the mobile biological labs – has there ever been even a shred of evidence that one ever existed? I am sure you could work through my list and find somewhere a web-based reference that one of them was real but with a few clicks of the mouse I could find mor examples of lies or exaggerations and the overall pattern is clear: the Downing Street memo documented their plan to manufacture a case for war and history has proven that memo reflected reality.

I think you are probably right in arguing that "states around the world - not just the Middle East - in which the economy is driven by a single resource, authoritarianism is the rule rather than the exception," Jay, but I'm not sure what that says about the current discussion as to whether or not we should assume we are in a death match that requires us to fight Moslems all around the world, ramp up the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, and fear their presence in countries like Spain and France (or impliedly here at home). What is the best way to deal with countries we don't like? That probably varies on a case by case business. Presently, it is not looking like unilateral invasion is the best approach.

The Blueberry Route GOES to the summit, Catbird. However, you can rappel off the south end of the Blueberry Terrace to Westward Ho. In some respects this may be the easiest descent from the Terrace because once you get onto Westward Ho it is a clean shot back to the base of the West Buttress and there is no screwing around to get on down to the Sidewalk, but the first two raps are not entirely user friendly (I think it takes two to get onto the line of Westward Ho). By the way, I don't remember "racing" you down the rappel routes on the west side. I'm pretty sure we simply rapped as we normally would and I may even have done a bit of scrubbing on the way down.

Waterboy, the anchors on Westward Ho were set for a 50 meter rope. I don't think any of them are that close to the full 50 meters, but 37 meters is probably a little short. If you try this, you'll end up rapping off a single bolt somewhere along the line.

I've seen it recommended to put the custom fitting on the inside of the plastic shell, but I've put it on the inside of the liner and obtained excellent results. I would think you'd strip it off the shells when cramming your bootie into them, and it would also seem that the careful fit would be complicated by the padding of the liner. So, answering your question, you "style" the padding with the liner and shell on. I learned this trick from a professional custom boot fitter. He did an excellent job, but I thought I could probably duplicate his efforts. In fact it wasn't hard. I should still give credit where credit is due, however: Jim Mates, in Seattle. He didn't use the "lazy x" that I describe, but he encouraged me to experiment with custom fitting. He also showed me that you can also heat up the shell and push it out to accomodate a larger heel, or a bunion or whatever... When I had plantar faciitis, he produced a pair of orthodics that fixed the foot problem as effectively as any foot doctor could. My take away message was that you should not feel shy about making a pair of boots "your own." If they are causing blisters or allowing your heel to lift and compromising performance, there IS something you can do about it.

Gene - I bet you could custom fit the liners to your advantage. Take blue foam, and cut it into a collar, maybe roughly in an "x" shape, to wrap around rhe rear of your foot and extend above and below your anlke bones protruding from the upper side of your foot. Cut it so it is contoured to fit, and experiment with temporary tape jobs to get it just right. Take it for a test ride before gluing or using any semi-permanent tape. Barge cement works well to glue it in place once you get it all tweaked and, when I had it refined just right, I've used ripstop repair tape to sealed it in and make the surface slippery so the liner slipped on and off without risking pulling the padding off. I've done this and eliminated prior problems stemming from a heel lifting in both ski boots and plastic climbing boots, solving blister issues and improving performance.

Check the weather forecast just before you head out. I"d take the mountain tent if there was a forecast including rain or wind, and NO tent if it was the usual August no chance of badweather forecast. (The main drawback of this "light" option is you might get harassed by - eeek - mice.)