pope

Looking for last minute ideas for that flamboyant, Euro-styled bolt clipper on your list? Here's a little something that is certain to add panache to his favorite redpoint costume: the Bedazzler! The Bedazzler....it's back! That's right, with the Bedazzler, he can attach little rhinestones and gems to his lycra and Verve wear! Imagine what a splash he'll make! Imagine the look in his eyes when he opens this Christmas Morn'! He'll be so ecstatic, your climbing partner might just become.... your partner. I've included an image that gives you an idea of the possibilities.

Now we're in an appropriate forum!

You're a pragmatic liberal, a fan of free and open discussion provided it doesn't make anybody think, provided it promotes the illusion that the current casual attitude toward bolting every sqaure inch of easily accessed top-ropable bluff is enthusiastically accepted by everybody who enjoys the freedom of the hills. All other discourse will be promptly demoted to "spray" where you're free to discuss pirates, bacon, MJ's murder and smoking pot in the Muir hut. "Look out! Here they come again! It's that bunch of guys who live in the old joke: it's YOU and two billion of your closest friends standing in shit up to your chins, chanting, 'DON'T MAKE A WAVE!'" Frank Zappa (naturally)

How about we call it "Grampa's Climbing Forum"? Then people can come learn how it was like to climb back in the good ole days? Back to one or two men's description of what climbing is? I've have said for a very long time that I think you guys represent a view point that others might share. But you don't seem acknowledge that just because you believe in something, that there is anyway anyone else might not share the same viewpoints? or the same spite? Do I need to warn you to the evils of megalomania? Have you taken the torch of climbing from someone more informed? Or are you placing the wrong emphasis what is really important? Offering an opinion on the history of and current state of bolting applications.... in a "rock climbing forum", in a thread linking an interview with a man who helped to promote this revolution.... is not spray. Virtually every response in opposition to my opinion consisted of insults, questioning of my climbing ability, speculation about my motives, charges of being afraid of new technology, character attacks, etc. Virtually the only attempt to discuss the appropriateness of rap bolting came in the form of an excuse that its impacts are less than some irrelevant road, ski resort, global warming report or whatever. That is spray. I think it is high time for some of you to admit that it isn't the message that you find annoying, nor its delivery. It is your own lack of ability to counter the message.

Brown is the color of your shirt.

Reflecting on the recent Alan Watts post, and having reviewed OW's intervention, one can only infer that Peter Puget's Rock Climbing Forum requires a new title: the Sport Climbing Forum. Otherwise, why shouldn't a FULL discussion of the impact of Alan's influence on rock climbing be allowed in a "rock climbing" forum? While Raindawg and I directed our comments squarely on topic, the original thread (even OW's edited version) includes personal attacks and speculation about the motivations of anybody who would suggest sport climbing hasn't been a positive development. Seriously, if discussion of the evils of sport climbing is going to be taboo (even in a thread where sport climbing's Godfather is profiled), how can we continue to call PP's forum "the rock climbing forum?" While we're at it, perhaps OW would consider changing his name to Cave Man, a title which would accuratley reflect how he caved in to the demands of those who demanded our silencing.

Listen pal, YOU are participating in an activity in which YOU can control YOUR impacts. Pointing to a road and excusing your bullshit because a greater impact was made by somebody else is weaksauce and I think you know it. You're not free to steal a bicycle just because a guy across the street is stealing a car. Sport climbing has attracted large crowds which have trampled more fragile vegetation than previous generations of crack climbers and top-ropers ever did. Take away the bolts, there go the crowds. Take away the crowds, there go the social trails and erosion.

Henry Barber's ideals seem strange or even amusing to you. But tell me, when Henry coiled his rope and went home, what did he leave behind at the cliff that imposed those beliefs on you? That's right, nothing. You're free to decide whether cams and leg loops are aid or legitimate. But that's my point. So....can you say the same for Alan Watts?

is this for real? if the great majority of climbers are okay with it, then it's okay. the fact that you feel it is an "imposition" on your experience is your deal, no one else's. your feelings are your responsibility. that's the way it works in the world. the rest of us aren't responsible for making your experience better. if the rest of the climbing community is okay with bolted routes then the fact that you consider it an "imposition" is something you need to come to terms with on your own. What we're talking about here is a shared natural resource. Key word here is "natural". Implicit in the idea of a shared natural resource is that generations of users will best enjoy, appreciate and respect the medium if and only if it is enjoyed in its natural state. Modifications to the natural state should be limited, carefully considered and implemented only when necessary for a broad range of users to gain access. Now take (what has become) a shit-hole like Vantage. Trails of bolts have been drilled on 50-foot pillars, on virtually every edge, face and corner. Ample climbing enjoyment can be derived via top-roping these routes, providing a thrill, a risk and an adventure similar to (or perhaps better than) clipping the bolts. The bolts aren't necessary. They are permanent modifications which do create an imposition to users who find them obnoxious (as do the crowds of color-coordinated sport climbers who are so fond of clipping bolts). And it doesn't matter that you and 45 of your best friends think the bolts are wonderful, you have wrecked what once was a unique natural resource. Which is a shame when one considers that the experience you desire can be found in a climbing gym or on the pinnacle next to the coffee shop at REI.

Interesting observation, which in no way explains my objections to sport climbing since I started climbing shortly after the arrival of sport climbing, and since I have routinely welcomed new ideas and technologies, to the extent that they improve my experience but to not impact the experience of others. Rap bolting leaves a metalic trail of trash, creating an imposition on my experience. Using leg loops obviously does not.

Grades. Big numbers. That's the bottom line. I get the impression proponents of sport climbing believe rock climbing is not a valid activity unless pioneers at the cutting edge are advancing the standards. Rap bolting advocates back in the 80's defended their activities by suggesting sport climbing was necessary for advancing free climbing standards. In reality, standards had increased through the previous decades and continued to increase through the 70's and early 80's. Not just YDS grades, but ethical and stylistic standards. Suddendly, in the mid 80's, perhaps motivated by fear that European climbers might be putting up bigger numbers, a minority of American climbers who fancied themselves as visionaries (one wrote a "manifesto"; another recently coined himself a rebel...just read the ACW interview), chose rap bolting and an entire arsenal of dubious tactics in order to push the envelope. The result? A few 5.13 climbs established in a way that removed all risk, adventure and commitment. Hardly a significant advancement when hard 5.12 climbs were being established on the lead in good style. Actually, the final result....25 years later....is an entirely new way of thinking about bolting. Rap bolting is currently practiced by anybody who can afford a Bosch and slide down a rope, and not just for establishing cutting-edge climbs, but basically anywhere and everywhere by just about everybody. Grid bolting, bolts on climbs which could be easily top-roped, bolts next to cracks too wide or too narrow for lazy climbers to protect with gear, crowds, social trails, chipping, glue, garbage. Basically, rap bolting equals unrestrained bolting. For Mr. Watts to suggest that this doesn't impact traditional climbing is nonsense. Here in Washington we've seen rap bolting on top-rope problems, well-established bold leads, in wilderness areas. And the younger climbers don't question it because they don't know another way, because they grew up with it. Sport climbing has an ugly side (as described above), especially to those who enjoy climbing as a wilderness experience. All of this was completely predicted by those who attempted to dissuade climbers like Mr. Watts, who I think should assume responsibility for where rock climbing has gone in the last 25 years. There's no doubt that Watts and others influenced this revolution (just read the interview if you believe otherwise); shouldn't he be credited with positive AND negative impacts? Just askin'. Grades. Big numbers. That's why rap bolting is necessary. And those numbers are so important, definitely worth the bolt trails, the stylistic devolution, the crowds, etc. From the 1960s through the mid 1980s, grades increased through 5.10, 5.11 and 5.12. Nearly 30 years later, and with dubious tactics, grades have increased through 5.13 and 5.14. For those who give a shit (I don't), hasn't sport climbing retarded this progression? Finally, I present a logical paradox for rap bolting enthusiasts. Is/was sport climbing (defined by rap bolting and poor style) necessary for increasing grades/standards? If the answer is no, then why tolerate all its impacts? If the answer is yes, then aren't the new sport climbing grades hollow victories, since they can only be achieved by allowing softer rules?

But they have something in common. YOU can only experience them vicariously.

I'm sure I'd like him too. Seems like a nice guy who means well. And I do give him credit for promoting the "sport scene" in the U.S., which is characterized by an insignificant increase in standards at the cost of a casual attitude to the application of bolts, an enormous decrease in the importance of style and adventure. Climbing used to mean ascending. It no longer does. Climbers used to attempt new ascents with minimal impact. They no longer give a shit. The fact is, nice people occasionally make poor choices with enormous impact. That's how I'd summarize Alan's contribution.

Thanks for nothing Mr. Watts.

"...when the sun's right, you can actually see some chains from the road (barely) and the glint of metal hangers here and there." Pathetic.

Been a few years. They needed somebody in the building and asked me. With no football experience, I came to enjoy both the game and coaching and worked ten years before I knew it. Best job I ever had. I guess it could fly. Seems kind of boring to watch, but I can imagine kids getting hooked on it....I sure did. That's a part of climbing, no doubt. Especially in a gym or at the UW. Out at the cliffs it always feels more like mountaineering to me, where I'm less concerned about what the next party is doing and more into the beauty and challenge of climbing a given route. Everybody gets something different out of it and that's the way it should be. I can't help believing that an obsession with competition is what ultimately persuaded American rock climbers to embrace rap bolting.

We're still worried about whether some dork on that side of the pond can hangdog a 5.13 sooner than we. Meanwhile, we're still wrecking our cliffs with grid bolting and other dubious practices, all in the name of catching up with the Euros. We all just need to go climbing more.

accidents are FUNNY!!! what the hell. Sometimes it ain't an accident. [video:youtube]

Here's where it's at: 'tis the season

LMFAO! Nice find Fairweather.

Squamish is always there, right next door, available even for a weekend. With that much time, consider driving to City of Rocks for some high-altitude rock work. Then you're just a few hours from Jackson Hole. A trip up "The Big Tit" by any route can be rewarding. From there go out to Colorado (I never completed that segment of the trip because my parnter became distracted by a female which basically ended the trip).

Say there little shaver, that event is still making you moist? Then learn to count. The correct number is four. Glory days well they'll pass you by Glory days in the wink of a young girl's eye Glory days, glory days Quotin' from the troubadour of low-rent Americana.

The one on the left is only 5.8 but is skeery to solo. Right, Pete H. Save that one for Pete Croft.

Just send me a copy and I'll offer an honest opinion. If my review is favorable, you can use my name for promotional purposes.