pope

This is what sport climbers discuss when they want to feel macho.

An option I enjoyed once is similar to what Dane describes. We overnighted at the base of the West Ridge, climbed the North (upper) Ridge and down the West Ridge, picked up minimal biv gear and out. From our camp, the North Ridge is very close making for an early summit. Just don't go too late in the summer because that bivi will be bone dry.

And each one is just a little different than the two starting 5 feet away from it.

maybe 10 bolts a route on average...definitely less than a 100,000 sport routes... i'd say 15,000 sport pitches would be optimistic...that's 150,000 bolts... And that ain't enough, is it now?

Two or three more bolts and I think Frenchman's Coulee will sink into the Columbia.

I don't know everything there is to know about Timson, but his climb on Givler's Dome is a superb example of restrained bolting and ground-up climbing. I recall having a far more favorable opinion of chasing bolts when there were just a few routes like that to be found in Leavenworth. Regarding Midnight Rock photos, I have a few that I thought were pretty nice, scanned from Ektachrome slides. Pretty sure they're on my work computer so give me a day or two.

What? Bill and Offy are being civil? You know, every once in a while I find myself believing that you two may just be an RCH more dignified than most of the bottom-feeders on this site.

Really? Hey, if that what's you're into. Just watch out for the "deadliest catch".

wtf? what is almost flash? So you fell off, doged your way to the top (i assume you didn't lower leaving gear), went back and did it RP. so why are you dissing sportos, since you have done the exact same in the past? man, you are weak and tool at the same time. Actually what happened is....there's a nice stance where the crack gets a little wide. I placed a nut and weighted it slightly so that I could strip off some clothing. There was no falling or dogging, but it my mind it didn't quite count. Note to self: wear a extra layer of clothing when I need an excuse for failure. We've all read your trip reports. We've come to expect it.

"Look! Only 5.16 calories!"

wtf? what is almost flash? So you fell off, doged your way to the top (i assume you didn't lower leaving gear), went back and did it RP. so why are you dissing sportos, since you have done the exact same in the past? man, you are weak and tool at the same time. and yes, the time have changed- people warm up on 11's. so you were and still are weak, pathetic wanker BAWHAHAHAHAHAHHA .... remember bob, he flashed equinox on a top rope! With Jason Mikos. Ask him.

No. They cost too much, and I had people waiting on me who were in no position to finish the climb. And they were cold. I hung on a nut, threw down my sweater and finished. With "1 PA" is the way I wrote it in my notes. The 2nd on the rope, who is now a big advocate of sport climbing and who has a mouth even larger than yours, followed the pitch with tension for nearly every move. I only went back to the climb to see if my Vertical World membership was providing dividends. BOOO BOOO BOOO U SUCK BOOO BOOO BOOO GO HOME POSER BOOO BOOO... musta sucked being all cold while dripping sweat from the heat, eh? Belayer was cold, I wasn't. I couldn't wiggle up that slot with three layers.

So, you're a foul-mouth and a liar. I challenge you to find that statement.

Take a number, honey.

wtf? what is almost flash? So you fell off, doged your way to the top (i assume you didn't lower leaving gear), went back and did it RP. so why are you dissing sportos, since you have done the exact same in the past? man, you are weak and tool at the same time. Actually what happened is....there's a nice stance where the crack gets a little wide. I placed a nut and weighted it slightly so that I could strip off some clothing. There was no falling or dogging, but it my mind it didn't quite count.

I'm going to call BS on this one. Unless it was one of those routes rated 5.13 for it's endurance demands, you're looking at the equivalent of a V7 boulder problem, most likely after you have a healthy pump from some hard 11 or 12 climbing below. Unless you are a mutant, there is absolutely no way that simply rehearsing the moves are going to make them magically happen. If you aren't that mutant, it's going to take some major sport specific training, a dedication to hard bouldering, or both to make moves that hard. How many 5.13 climbers even post to this board? Isn't Marc Leclerc chasing that grade (and judging from his videos, he is sick strong)? I will agree with you that it is not much of a jump to make for an onsite 5.12 climber to pull a 5.13 with sport climbing tactics. To take this argument to reduce the accomplishments of Sharma (or anyone who has pulled 5.15) is silly at best. So Pope, what do you think of today's cutting edge "trad" climbers such as Caldwell and Trotter? Both have shown a high level of onsite ability, but have used the sport tactic to do near superhuman feats. Where I added bold type to your quote, that's exactly what I've been saying. When sport climbing arrived in America, rap bolting was defended because supposedly climbing 5.13 was not possible without it. In fact, those first sport climbs were in the easy 5.13 range and they didn't represent an enormous leap above what was already being done in much better style without all of the cheating, aid and bolts. And yet, folks who struggled with 5.12 gear routes could suddenly spend half their summer hanging off bolts and rehearse the snot out of a 13a climb. And they went after it like nose candy, because the dumbed-down version of rock climbing was allowing access to grades only previously seen on the cover of Climbing Magazine. Then came 5.14, and 5.15. But I'd argue that 5.15 is more the spawn and progression of bouldering than sport climbing. Now the choice is there to climb in whatever way motivates you. I get it that you don't like bolts. In the grand scheme of things, I don't understand how the bolts truly affect you. Sure there will be a few climbs that shouldn't be bolted, but do you go to Exit 38 wishing that all of that choss wasn't bolted? Are the endless bolt lines of Vantage really a big deal (especially compared to trash and spray paint from concert goers)? I'm sure you still go out and climb what you want, how you want to, and still get from it what you want. If I feel like going out to Exit 38 for a low key day of bolt clipping, you would never know, nor should you care. That's the way it should be. If bolts were only found at Exit 38, I suppose I'd be OK with that. What I see in Leavenworth makes me sad. Truly. When I started climbing about the only bolts you saw in the Icicle were found on ground-up clasics like Timson's Face. How things have changed.

No. They cost too much, and I had people waiting on me who were in no position to finish the climb. And they were cold. I hung on a nut, threw down my sweater and finished. With "1 PA" is the way I wrote it in my notes. The 2nd on the rope, who is now a big advocate of sport climbing and who has a mouth even larger than yours, followed the pitch with tension for nearly every move. I only went back to the climb to see if my Vertical World membership was providing dividends.

2 Thanks for answering that. What if the second try comes 10 years later? Is is still siege climbing? I almost flashed ROTC. I was in the little wide part, well above the crux, about 10 feet from home on a cold day when I realized I couldn't climb it with the sweater I had on. Plus I was out of gas. I waited about three years and although it seemed harder the second time, I was more determined than ever to get it and managed to nail it. Less than perfect style, my climb deserves a footnote.

Tvash, I was getting worried. You were logged out for at least 15 minutes. I assumed you were either pulling you pud or you'd become lost trying to reach REI with your GPS.

2

I'm going to call BS on this one. Unless it was one of those routes rated 5.13 for it's endurance demands, you're looking at the equivalent of a V7 boulder problem, most likely after you have a healthy pump from some hard 11 or 12 climbing below. Unless you are a mutant, there is absolutely no way that simply rehearsing the moves are going to make them magically happen. If you aren't that mutant, it's going to take some major sport specific training, a dedication to hard bouldering, or both to make moves that hard. How many 5.13 climbers even post to this board? Isn't Marc Leclerc chasing that grade (and judging from his videos, he is sick strong)? I will agree with you that it is not much of a jump to make for an onsite 5.12 climber to pull a 5.13 with sport climbing tactics. To take this argument to reduce the accomplishments of Sharma (or anyone who has pulled 5.15) is silly at best. So Pope, what do you think of today's cutting edge "trad" climbers such as Caldwell and Trotter? Both have shown a high level of onsite ability, but have used the sport tactic to do near superhuman feats. Where I added bold type to your quote, that's exactly what I've been saying. When sport climbing arrived in America, rap bolting was defended because supposedly climbing 5.13 was not possible without it. In fact, those first sport climbs were in the easy 5.13 range and they didn't represent an enormous leap above what was already being done in much better style without all of the cheating, aid and bolts. And yet, folks who struggled with 5.12 gear routes could suddenly spend half their summer hanging off bolts and rehearse the snot out of a 13a climb. And they went after it like nose candy, because the dumbed-down version of rock climbing was allowing access to grades only previously seen on the cover of Climbing Magazine.

I'm younger than you. I'm pretty sure you're no fan of rap either. We can all agree on that. Like that guy in the Sharma video. Like I'd give a shit. Top ropes? I love 'em. And I think an enormous amount of skill can be developed on a top-rope or boulder or in a gym. Some folks think bolts and sport climbing are necessary, but we all know that's just an excuse for the trail of trash left for the next party to "enjoy".

And also CRAP MY DRAWERS. Forgot to mention that part.