Dru

if she was "Climbing by herself" and an employee "bitched her out for sloppy belaying" that's one strange gym you got there in MN!!

simpkins no, we came in via the north side, see ice conditions thread! i was just thinking about the different approaches to the mountain is all. all those butte names are funny but none more so than big bosom buttes! alpine T&A

but erik it could also happen while trad climbing with crampons on!! but never with the new Charlet Dart with better designed heel bail, or with those bolt on crampons you attach to hockey skates!

hiking is the approach to climbing. seriously, the two overlap, its like a Venn diagram. There is mountaineering that is hiking, mountaineering that is climbing, mountaineering that is neither (skiing); climbing that is also hiking (if you hike up a peak, you have climbed that peak)...climbing is to ascend where as hiking is to walk...hiking along Olympic Beach for 3 days is not climbing but hiking up Whitney is, non-technical climbing; scrambling may be where the two overlap or it may be a subset of soloing without fall potential, the big question is SO FUCKING WHAT? if its for reporting lost people on the news, if they had technical gear, they are not "hikers" and its a bit of a put down to call them that. now to offend all the dog lovers . if it is hiking a dog can climb it, and if it is climbing, the dog can't

thinking about this name during my slog out from Tomyhoi. i wonder if anyone has ever had a Yellow Butte Disaster up there

Ben Firth sent Musashi (M12) in carhartts

Bearspirit? I woulda "got out of there quick before I had to rescue someone" No seriously, it sounds like what happened was the right thing to do. UNLESS, if he had good sticks with the tools, he could throw the rope over the pinky rest or the head of one of the tools, and dog off the tool enough to get pro in or to reach down to the crampon? Or, with spurs, do the splits, heel hooking spur-on-tool with the un-caught foot and using both hands to deal with the caught foot...

the difference is the same as the diff between nwhikers.net and cascadeclimbers.com

No, because the same number of pitches of the same difficulty on the Squamish Apron, would be a II (slab climbing, lower angle, climb faster) - you could get exactly the same length and number of pitches at the listed grades by climbing Slab Alley, but the "hypothetical average party" does Slab Alley in 2 hours, and Outer Space in 5-6, I think?. So the III does tell you something.

I found out there IS a viable route out of the basin something like High Pass to Garget Mine. who wants to meet me and exchange backpacks this summer. yours can be full of money. mine will also be full of green. Beckey doesnt need to quote prospectors, anybody who climbs Border Peaks sees the waterfalls on this face. Research indicates every route on the N side of the mountain was made by a Canadian party that's a long history of plundering American routes

"mostly" ??

Spanker got ripcordz? Careful asking for 'special' beads...

Hexes and Bongs The Clog Cam is the pre-Tech Friend era Flexible Friend under a new name. Clog is wholly owned by Wild Country and is its budget arm, making cheap, heavy, 1990's era cutting technology for penny pinching 21st century climbers.

How come you have heard of Hunter DFA? Did you actually read about something other than bolt clipping and plastic while rereading Hot Flashes on the can?

Eric Brand route on W Face of Thor. Charlie Porter route is today called VII but was given VI at the time.

true, and less violence, less lieing and less allover bad behavior. I think everyone shopuld be nakid if everyone went naked, where would we carry our car keys and stuff we normally put in our pockets? clip em to our nipple rings with accessory biners?

truer words were never spoken.

I don't think that the climbs on Slesse have gone from VI to V....I think they were called V originally. Now many people maybe do the NE buttress as a IV (long day), and i would agree it is IV-V or lower boundary of V....

The overall grade was originally intended, to differentiate between two routes of the same length and crux difficulty. For instance, a 10 pitch route, mostly 5.7 with 1 pitch of 10b, would get a III, and a 10 pitch routem, sustained with all pitches at 10b, and maybe some serac hazard from above as well, would get a IV. Or something like that.

some people cry when no one responds to their thread Warhol said "All Publicity is good" or was it PT Barnum. You should be glad your TR has sparked such interest. I am already planning to see tickets to the Natural-Perkins "Did they Dog The Fuck out of it or was it easy or what" battlecage

Lets not forget that grades change over time. Lotus Flower Tower was originally rated a VI. When freed, it was called "one of the world's few all-free Grade VI's". Now it is routinely called V.

El Cap is a "high alpine face" and "remote" ???

but fern, chestbeating requires numbers!!!

Id say the situation I described, the routes should have the same grades. On the other hand, a 10 pitch 5.9, with a death bushwack approach, and requiring you to carry over bivi gear to descend, and with bad rock, I would suggest should get a slightly higher grade than either of the 2 given above. Here's my revised list of some well known routes with grades. The only way, in my opinion, to make sense of overrall grades, is to make a list of routes that everyone can agree on grades of and then categorize other routes by :harder than, easier than, more commiting than, less commiting than, etc. I: Mountaineers Dome; Classic Crack; any single pitch in the Smoke Bluffs; Mt. Challenger summit route II: West Ridge of Prussik; Diedre; R&D; Beckey route on Lib Bell III: W Face or NW corner of NEWS; Outer Space; Angels Crest; N ridge of Baker; S buttress of Cutthroat IV: N ridge of Clarke; SE buttress of Slesse; Backbone Ridge or Serpentine Arete; Liberty Ridge; Flying Buttress on Redoubt V: NE buttress or N rib of Slesse; Navigator Wall on Slesse; Direct E Buttress Slesse; Lib Crack; Ten Years After on the Chief; Andromeda Strain in the Rockies; Steinbok NE arete, either route; direct N buttress on Bear; Beckey-Chouinard in the Bugs VI: East Face of Slesse; The Diamond on Bear; North Norwegian Buttress on Index; North face of Alberta; Nose on El Cap; Bald Egos on the Chief; Beckey guides used to have Tables like this, comparing Rockies, N Cascades, Yosemite, Tetons etc.!!

If you hike for a day to get into Cathedral, and climb the SE buttress as an easy day with 20 minute approach from your camp on the next day, and hike out on the 3rd day, does that 10 pitch 5.9, suddenly deserve a higher grade than a 10 pitch 5.9 in the Washington Pass area with a 20 minute approach from the car?