chucK

In this case Rainier Beer goggles

This was stated on another thread, but I think it applies here. I think a very good way to bolt a crux move is to have the bolt as close to the crux as possible, but low enough so as to be impossible to use it to cheat through the crux. The KDR pitch at Static is like this. So JayB, do you think this sucks because it is deliberately making the moves more dangerous than they need be? (BTW If the crux of the pitch is not really representative of the rest of the route, like say, a 5.11 move or two, with the rest of the route being sustained 5.9, then I think it's cool if the bolt there allows one to cheat.)

Good post JayB. The Static Point bolts are fine for the most part. I hadn't noticed the belay below the crux pitch as being scary. I know there are still 1/4"ers in some of those belays but with the exception of the top station aren't all the rest augmented with at least one stainless 3/8"er. The runout on the 3rd pitch makes that pitch classic. If you get scared, you can deviate right over to an area with holds and a good piton, then curve back onto the mainline. A slab fall probably won't kill you IF you wear a helmet and take care not to get your feet caught in the rope. Might end up with some road rash though, but heck, you can get that from sliding into second base. If someone really wants to improve the Static Point experience, I would advocate bringing a shovel and/or prybar and modifying some of the smaller waterbars so that one could ride a bike on that initial road without having to dismount every 50 feet. That would rule!

Check George Bell's Cirque of the Unclimables page out. You'll find a pic or two there.

Thank you all for your kind comments. Dru, if you're serious, write up a little sumpin about that Fraser Rox place (I've never been there) and I'll put it on there. Klar, sorry about the sandbag, I fix it, maybe. Sloppy, I thought my Vantage page was truly inspirational on a visual level . Where exactly are these canadia and smiff places?

Sounds about right. I often take some skin off my right elbow while climbing up chimneys.

Hey! A while back someone asked for general Seattle crag beta. I thought about it, and figured that the only currently available overviews that I know about are Smoot's book, and one on Alex's webpage. So....I got to workin' The new totally biased from my perspective, possibly informative to the area visitor, possibly entertaining to the local cragster Seattle Area Crag Overview is now available online. Look at it if you dare. If you got some good beta for one of these areas in the vein of the presentation and you think people ought to know it, contact me and we can discuss putting it on the page. In ref to the other recent webpage thread, I've liberally used other people's pictures in this crag overview. I have attempted to credit all, and furnish links to where I found the picture. The pics are linked to, not copied and presented. If you find a picture in here that is yours and you don't like it. Please let me know. There are some pics from CC.com linked. Scot-teryx's site, Klar's site, MVS's site, Smoot's site, Colt45's site, DBB's site, GregM's site and probably more that I am forgetting about at the moment.

What slide show?

I think there's a good one with holder and everything out by Nevermind Wall somewhere.

and wha'dya know but I have a 1/4" bit for my Hitli and 200 vintage buttonheads There you go Iceclimer. You got yourself a crew!

CBS, buy some screamers. They are load limiting devices for marginal placements. Also I recommend not placing pieces (nuts or cams)behind things that look like they will probably calve off and kill or incapacitate your belayer. If your assessment is might kill your belayer, then I think the differential between cam and nut wedging forces is much smaller than the margin of error involved in your risk assessment. That is, there is no practical difference.

Mattp, you sure ask a lot of questions. I used that rivet hole as a hold. Are fingernails aid?

I love grabbing those rotting root balls at the crux.

Dude, if that flake nails you, 1/2" bolts aren't going to ease your pain. I don't see what an exfoliating flake on an exfoliating granite dome has to do with adding bolts to a climb that probably sees at least 50 ascents a year.

Sphinx, your post's style seems to be implying that this is some great oxymoron. I don't see it that way at all. The reason many people on this climbing board appear to support both chopping down some trees and not placing new bolts on previously existing routes is to preserve good climbing routes. Adding new protection bolts would degrade the quality of the already veryfine routes at Static as would allowing nature to reclaim Godzilla. I am not taking any stance on the environmental ethics of either of these issues. I'm just pointing out that I don't think the two points are contradictory in terms of climbing.

Replacing old bolts with new ones is generally looked upon favorably by the climbing community. Adding new bolts to existing, popular climbs (i.e. climbs that many other people do without fretting) is generally looked upon very poorly. If there are not enough bolts at Static Point for you, I would suggest either climbing Lost Charms (gear route) if you want to stay at Static, or perhaps Condomorphine Addiction in Leavenworth. Darrington also sports many predominantly-friction climbs that have brand-spankin' new bomber bolts that are placed very carefully so as to reduce fretting.

I disagree. They are merely different points on a continuum. Sticky rubber shoes make certain stances rests, that would not be rests without sticky rubber. They both change the game. Make it easier to get up stuff.

So what's to distinguish climbing tape (used for the purpose of greater sticking power) from sticky rubber on shoes? Are the "rules" of climbing like some contrived boulder problem where it's aid if you use advantages connected to your hands but not if you use something on your feet? Think about it. It would be much less advantageous if you had some sticky stuff for your hands but were disallowed from using sticky rubber for your feet.

I think this gives us newer climbers a different perspective on the thoughts of some of those old trad codgers that are sometimes viewed as negative and unaccepting of change. This gecko tape sounds like it would probably work pretty damn well for climbing. Its introduction to climbing would be completely analogous to the introduction of sticky-rubbered climbing shoes. Climbing shoes are almost universally recognized now as part of the game. Is there any reason to denounce gecko tape as aid other than the fact that it may become available after YOU began climbing?

OK, here's a more refined, thought-out, response that should please Mattp... I'm all for totally hacking out vine maples, if I understand correctly which flora they are (basically overgrown bushes, slide alderlike). But the bigger, more grand, traditional type trees (single-trunk, tall, deciduous) I would be much more in favor of manicuring like one would do in one's yard, or just leaving alone. I don't think you could go wrong if you just treat it with respect like you would your yard. Index Lower Town Wall is already basically a public park. I don't see any harm in shaping it as such. Of course, it would be nice if the shapers a) actually know what they are doing (which AK certainly does), and b) has permission of authorities that might get cheezed off otherwise and retaliate somehow against climbers. I think the Upper Town Wall has a more wilderness feel and I'd say manage that more like you would someplace like Sno Pass (trail maintenance, but otherwise leave the flora alone).

AK, It appears a big distinction is being made here between hacking a whole tree away and "pruning". It seems like pruning wouldn't/shouldn't bother anyone, whereas "timbeeeeeeer" could be more controversial. Are you really considering just pruning (that seems like it would be a lot more work than just felling the trees)? To make this very specific: with regards to that tree that you could basically use as an alternate start to Godzilla, are talking about making it into a stump, or just trimming it?

I think he should chip 'em and put a big soft pile of chips at the base of that 10c corner below the Slab. Carpeting the parking lot with soft aromatic chips would be nice too, for the apres-crag experience .

I know a tree I want cut down at Darrington. Mattp probably has a picture somewhere of me and the tree.

Way to rip it up guys!