texplorer Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I think I'll shoot myself if I have to see that guy with toilet paper up his ass one more time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Colt 1911 max eff range is 25 meters Berretta mil pistol 9mm is 50 meters  Someone tell me if I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 how much of a whallop is the 45 going to pack when it runs out of the range most 9mm are capable of? Â Good point, Ray. I would counter that with the point that pistols are for close-quarters. Right? I'm looking at maximum effectiveness in the first 30', which a .45 ACP bullet travelling at approx. 850-fps can cover in .0353-seconds without losing too much energy. I can look up some ballistics if you want. Â Dont waste your time. I'm just fuckin around. Â Too late, dammit. These are all from Federal's website. Â A 230-gr .45 Auto bullet at 25-yds will carry 350-ft-lbs of energy at 830-fps. Â A 124-gr 9mm Parabellum bullet at 25-yds will carry 315-ft-lbs of energy at 1070-fps. Â These are typical loads for self-defense that you can buy off the shelf. That .45 looks pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I'll take the 9mm since I can pump more rounds in if the first one doesnt do the job. Plus it has twice the max effective range. Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Colt 1911 max eff range is 25 meters Berretta mil pistol 9mm is 50 meters  Someone tell me if I'm wrong.  That point is moot. What kind of accuracy are you going to get at 50-m? Non-military trained joe-six pack. If the perp is at 50-m he is probably running away and the gun has served it's purpose without firing a shot. Good guys win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I dont like pistols anyway. I take that back. I'll be carrying a rifle so I can shoot through body armor. Pistols are for wimps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I've got a 9-mm, so I like it. I was just making a case for carrying the .45; it may and old caliber, but it has served well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Colt 1911 max eff range is 25 meters Berretta mil pistol 9mm is 50 meters  Someone tell me if I'm wrong.  That point is moot. What kind of accuracy are you going to get at 50-m? Non-military trained joe-six pack. If the perp is at 50-m he is probably running away and the gun has served it's purpose without firing a shot. Good guys win.  What kind of accuracy is a 45 gonna get at 30 meters None! But a 9mm will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 The majority of the accuracy, at that range, is in the shooter not the load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 tex, you're gettin' pretty grumpy in your old age. we know you don't like spray. lighten up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 The majority of the accuracy, at that range, is in the shooter not the load. Â Be careful if you are not on my side then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willstrickland Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 You haven't done enough stereotyping of Liberals. What liberal would be an expert shot? Further, what liberal would own a gun?  I'm pretty liberal. I shot expert marksman with both the M16 and the M9 (that's a beretta 9mm pistol). I've made 200+ yard kill shots on deer in heavy timber. I own a Ruger 1022 .22lr, Remington Mod 700 .243, Beretta .20 gauge semi-auto shotgun, and Smith and Wesson bolt-action (yeah they made rifles for a time) 7mm mag.  Why the sterotyping? You must be a punch of pansy-assed, lycra wearing, beta spewing, bolt clipping, conservatives.  It's a vast right wing sporto conspiracy I tell ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Don't worry, I'll stay on your side. Who's going to help me run the crew-served weapon I'm getting from the Czech Republic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 nifty tool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Careful, there are laws about barrel length in some states for shotguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Don't worry, I'll stay on your side. Who's going to help me run the crew-served weapon I'm getting from the Czech Republic? Â AGS-17??!! or 30??!! Â http://www.milparade.com/2000/42/03_10.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted January 24, 2003 Author Share Posted January 24, 2003 You gun dudes fuckin' slay me. Bwahahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I figure it'll help keep the snafflehounds at bay if we make it up North this summer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Careful, there are laws about barrel length in some states for shotguns. The problem is in defining a shotgun. Smooth bore isn't an accurate description anymore. Anyway, you can own a shotgun with a barrel shorter than 18" if you've got special ATF permission. I think it takes a hefty donation to your favorite Senator to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaingreybeard Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 You haven't done enough stereotyping of Liberals. What liberal would be an expert shot? Further, what liberal would own a gun? I carry a gun and am an expert shot. If believing in freedom and a womens right to chose, organized Labor,Human rights and paying my fair share of taxes makes me a liberal than so be it . Look where a few years of right wing politics have gotten us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaingreybeard Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Republican= Totalitarian Enactment's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracked Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 GregW and Caveman, why not a .357 or .44 magnum? With a heavy bullet they can kill a grizzly, moose, etc, if I remember correctly. Sure, the recoil might be a deterrent, but as long as you're talking about max power and range..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texplorer Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I hear dueling banjos on this post. Â What's that Trask? No I don't have purty lips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg_W Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 GregW and Caveman, why not a .357 or .44 magnum? With a heavy bullet they can kill a grizzly, moose, etc, if I remember correctly. Sure, the recoil might be a deterrent, but as long as you're talking about max power and range..... Â Most wheel guns (revolvers) are rather large and don't carry well. They are kind of wide and the hammer catches on clothing. Plus you only have 6 shots. Â .357 and .44 are for the bedside table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ade Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Humm... When I first read this I thought it particularly applicable to the current global situation. In which case I thought the current conservative answer to be something like: Â "See a guy you know across the street reading a newspaper (you've seen him before and he's a bad ass, beats his wife and kids and you've kicked his ass before). You think this guy talked to the guy coming at you with the gun... maybe. More to the point he's a sitting target so you're certain to hit him and you know where he lives so if you don't get him the first time... Kill that guy instead. Don't talk about the guy with the gun and he'll just go away." Â Anyway... Â There was an article in SOF magazine ages ago written by a lawyer who defended people in self-defense shooting cases (No, I don't subscribe). It was very interesting. A couple of the things I picked up from it. Buying a large caliber gun is OK provided its not called "the Manstopper .45" as the prosecutor will have a field day making you (an SOF reader) out to be a total nut. If you can shoot then you're much more likely to stop your assailant with a single round which is much easier to explain that a corpse riddled with shells, which again makes you look like a nut. Â If you want it for self defense, and are not going to carry, isn't a shotgun a pretty good choice? Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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