Breathable insulation?

[jakedouglas]

There are a few new synthetic insulated jackets on the market this year marketing exceptional breathability, notably the OR Superlayer and the Patagonia Nano Air.

 

Breathable insulation is not new. We are used to this idea in the form of a fleece, such as the R1. It does breathe fairly well, but the caveat is typically that a shell must be added when stopped, or the substantial air permeability allows the heat to be sucked out by the wind.

 

The claims seem too good to be true:

 

Put it on, leave it on. From trailhead to summit and back, the Nano-Air™ Hoody sets a new standard for technical insulation, merging the comfort and breathability of open fleece with the protection and warmth of a puffy.

 

This jacket's construction dumps excess heat when you're on the move, but holds in the heat during downtime.

 

How can this be? Isn't it inherent that more air permeability will result in more heat loss? Can't I obtain similar results by poking holes in my current jackets?

 

Does anyone have experience with these pieces?

[tvashtarkatena]

The best performing breathable midlayer insulation I've found are merino wool sweaters from Goodwill.

[dazo]

Try on Paramo analogy insulation systems, they work superb. I am guiding in Colombia where it rains over 3000mm yearly and thats a lot, and when it comes in terms of breathability Paramo analogy is the the choice.

 

Yes it is a bit heavy on the counter part and is not fashionable, but who wants to look like paris hilton when climbing in rough mountains, functionality comes first in my opinion.

 

Cheers!

[Jake_Gano]

Breathable insulation is not new. We are used to this idea in the form of a fleece, such as the R1. It does breathe fairly well, but the caveat is typically that a shell must be added when stopped, or the substantial air permeability allows the heat to be sucked out by the wind.

 

 

You nailed it.

 

I have a Polartec Alpha insulated jacket from Rab called the Strata Flex that looks to be a pretty close to the Patagonia's nano-air. It's nice...but nothing earth shattering. For various reasons (beyond the insulation) I find myself sticking to a micro fleece with a conditions-appropriate shell for climbing. The Strata mostly just gets used for bike commuting on cool mornings, hiking, etc. I wouldn't buy it again.

[DPS]

So, apparently this new breed of high lofting, highly breathable insulation, (e.g. PolarTec Alpha), is an insulating piece intended to be worn while moving. This is a distinctly different function than Primaloft/down which has traditionally been used in belay jackets whose purpose is to be worn while not moving.

 

I have been using a Marmot DriClime wind shirt for over 20 years and it is the most universally useful garment I own. It sheds wind and light precipitation and insulates yet still breathes well and it layers easily due to its slippery nylon shell. Even in the winter, it is often the only insulation worn while on the go.

 

I'm curious to see if this new technology is superior to the DriClime. I may pick up a vest this winter to see.

[jared_j]

I think this stuff is pretty niche in application. It seems ideal for two situations:

 

1. Relatively low - output activity punctuated by frequent stops. I'm thinking situations where you don't wanna constantly be putting your puffy on and taking it off, but could get sorta cold sitting around. Like taking your special man or lady friend on a winter hike to Snow Lake when it's sunny out.

 

2. Moving in balls-ass cold conditions (that one typically does not find in the PNW) where a next-to-skin grid fleece type thing plus a breathable shell of some sort is not sufficient to keep you warm enough.

 

It seems to offer a middleground between the "action suit" where the only way to stay warm is through relatively high-output exertion, and the "belay jacket over action suit" that's only comfortable for when you're not moving.

 

Bonus conjecture: I bet this stuff is really nice for climbers and athletes who are gettin' on up in years and find that they generate less heat and/or have trouble staying warm enough in the traditional "action suit" that was adequate when they were younger and more flat-stomached.

Edited November 24, 2015 by jared_j

[NDrake]

 

Bonus conjecture: I bet this stuff is really nice for climbers and athletes who are gettin' on up in years and find that they generate less heat and/or have trouble staying warm enough in the traditional "action suit" that was adequate when they were younger and more flat-stomached.

 

Haha you might have nailed it right there.

 

I think you're going to hear a lot of varying opinions on this new type of insulation because all the manufacturers are using different shell fabrics. That rab Strata has a pertex microlight nylon shell that blocks more wind and isn't breathable, it kind of defeats the whole purpose of the idea behind the insulation.

This year they came out with a new jacket that sounds like it has a much more breathable shell: http://rab.equipment/us/shop/men/softshell/paradox-pull-on-10

 

I did ski tour on a moderate weather day with a friend that had a polartec alpha jacket from westcomb. Unzipped on the tour up and zipped on the way down with no clothing changes he said he was comfy.

 

Personally I just wear a poly fishnet shirt and windshell touring in colder weather, grid fleece if climbing. Haven't felt the need for another layer of insulation here.

[Jake_Gano]

So, apparently this new breed of high lofting, highly breathable insulation, (e.g. PolarTec Alpha), is an insulating piece intended to be worn while moving. This is a distinctly different function than Primaloft/down which has traditionally been used in belay jackets whose purpose is to be worn while not moving.

 

I have been using a Marmot DriClime wind shirt for over 20 years and it is the most universally useful garment I own. It sheds wind and light precipitation and insulates yet still breathes well and it layers easily due to its slippery nylon shell. Even in the winter, it is often the only insulation worn while on the go.

 

I'm curious to see if this new technology is superior to the DriClime. I may pick up a vest this winter to see.

 

Dan, I think you'll find that these new insulated garments are much warmer than a Driclime. I run all the time when it's really cold out in a Driclime. I'd roast doing the same thing in my Alpha insulated jacket.