Changing Gun Laws

[genepires]

Pat's statement about gun ownership decreasing with the younger crowd is supported by that graph above. according to 2 different surveys (gallup and GSS), gun ownership has been slipping for a while. (ah shucks, you beat me to it Rob)

 

are folks saying that middle aged men are giving up their guns and the young folks are rushing to them? that seems unlikely.

Edited December 6, 2013 by genepires

[Fairweather]

Rob's stat is BS.

 

[rob]

That strange feeling in your head? That's reality trying to fight its way back in

[prole]

Reality doesn't count unless it's seen on cable television.

[Ben Beckerich]

I've heard that stat cited... It runs so incredibly contrary to everything I'm seeing that I haven't even bothered to research the criteria used to compile it. I guess I'll have to... maybe after finals.

 

In any event, I'll just lend some anecdotal internet sample-of-one perspective... I'm a younger guy- not YOUNG anymore, but definitely still "young man." The current market for military style weapons is absolutely dominated by 20-30s. We are eating the shit up. Our parents were anti-gun- and irrationally so- and we've rebelled against that inside-the-box establishment and are openly embracing a new culture. We carry Glocks, we own and shoot ARs. Everyone I hang with, everyone I climb with, everyone I go to school with. With exceptions, obviously... some climbers wear crocs, for instance.

 

Get on one of the jillions of high-traffic internet gun forums that have popped up in the last 5 years- ALL young adults. Go to one of these new "tactical" style gun-shops selling semiautomatic sporting rifles- all young guys working there, all young guys buying the shit. Go to an IPSC or IDPA or three-gun event... the young guys' split times get better and better, the old guys' get slower and slower..

 

Concealed handgun permit issuance is not just up because they're available- sheriff's offices were inundated with new applications years ago, and it just keeps going up and up, in the last 5-6 years. Our local sheriff here in Columbia county goes around to all the different towns in the county on different days of the week and issues permits from the local police department, because lines would be out the door if he made everyone go to the sheriff's office. These permits have been available for decades- that's not new.

 

We grew up on Call of Duty, MOA, CounterStrike, HALO, and a lot of us are veterans. Military style guns specifically, are a fully ingrained part of the young adult culture in this country right now.

 

And we're not NRA members.

[Pete_H]

America was built by the gun, especially the west. Going to be hard to change that cycle.

[rob]

Military style guns specifically, are a fully ingrained part of the young adult culture in this country right now.

 

As a young adult myself, I can fully attest that every single young adult in thhis country has a closet full of military hardware, and are also veterans.

 

Also, none of my friends are fat. This whole "obesity-epidemic" thing is just a bunch of bullshit made up by Michelle Obama to try and destroy the coca-cola company. Fuck that shit!

 

 

[rob]

America was built by the gun, especially the west. Going to be hard to change that cycle.

 

Ironically, most western towns had very struct gun control laws. Any guesses what law Wyatt Earp was enforcing in the OK Corral? lol

[Pete_H]

I don't particularly like guns. They're loud and shit. But I like having one around for home defense. If I lived in Germany, or Japan, I wouldn't be allowed to have one and I'd be cool with that. Its not a gun culture and its a less violent culture. In America "If guns were outlawed only outlaws will have guns," is a played-out old cliche, but there is some truth there.

[Pete_H]

America was built by the gun, especially the west. Going to be hard to change that cycle.

 

Ironically, most western towns had very struct gun control laws. Any guesses what law Wyatt Earp was enforcing in the OK Corral? lol

 

Sure but if Colt hadn't invented the six-shooter we'd still be calling Texas and Oklahoma Comanchia.

[rob]

I don't particularly like guns. They're loud and shit. But I like having one around for home defense. If I lived in Germany, or Japan, I wouldn't be allowed to have one and I'd be cool with that. Its not a gun culture and its a less violent culture. In America "If guns were outlawed only outlaws will have guns," is a played-out old cliche, but there is some truth there.

 

I have zero interest in outlawing guns -- I just want to see them properly regulated with mandatory universal background checks, training and licensing: just like we have with cars (which are another possibly lethal implement which has been very successfully regulated)

 

As a gun owner myself, I cant even begin to fathom why any rational individual would be against universal background checks and licensing. Imagine if we treated cars like we treat guns. Shudder!

[Pete_H]

Totally agree. Also fund ATF more and have a national gun registry. That all seems more than reasonable as far as I'm concenred.

[rob]

I had a black-powder replica of a Colt Walker once -- super fun to shoot. Messy, though. They must have spent a lot of time cleaning their guns back then.

[Ben Beckerich]

I don't particularly like guns. They're loud and shit. But I like having one around for home defense. If I lived in Germany, or Japan, I wouldn't be allowed to have one and I'd be cool with that. Its not a gun culture and its a less violent culture. In America "If guns were outlawed only outlaws will have guns," is a played-out old cliche, but there is some truth there.

 

I have zero interest in outlawing guns -- I just want to see them properly regulated with mandatory universal background checks, training and licensing: just like we have with cars (which are another possibly lethal implement which has been very successfully regulated)

 

As a gun owner myself, I cant even begin to fathom why any rational individual would be against universal background checks and licensing. Imagine if we treated cars like we treat guns. Shudder!

 

Cars are probably the single most heavily regulated thing we own... guns are largely unregulated... cars kill more people than guns, even if you factor in suicide. They kill more people unnaturally than anything, for that matter. If you leave suicide out of the equation, I think it's like 3:1, in fact.

 

I'm not sure how your car analogy is supporting your argument for regulation

[Ben Beckerich]

Totally agree. Also fund ATF more and have a national gun registry. That all seems more than reasonable as far as I'm concenred.

 

What does it address, and how does it address it?

[Pete_H]

Cars kill more people than guns but there are way more cars around than guns and they get used more so that's a valueless statistic.

[Ben Beckerich]

Cars kill more people than guns but there are way more cars around than guns and they get used more so that's a valueless statistic.

 

No.. actually there's a similar number of registered vehicles as guns in the US. There ARE more guns, but it's not by much.

[Pete_H]

Totally agree. Also fund ATF more and have a national gun registry. That all seems more than reasonable as far as I'm concenred.

 

What does it address, and how does it address it?

 

I'm assuming you mean a national gun registry? or funding ATF more? Either action will increase enforcement capabilities. Seems like we would want to provide law enforcement with the tools they would need in which to enforce current laws and regulations. Won't solve all the problems or take all the illegal guns off the street but being able to apprehend and prosecute violators is usually the first step in reducing an illegal act.

 

Keep in mind NRA lobby is a big driver in defunding the ATF and preventing a national gun registry.

[Pete_H]

Cars kill more people than guns but there are way more cars around than guns and they get used more so that's a valueless statistic.

 

No.. actually there's a similar number of registered vehicles as guns in the US. There ARE more guns, but it's not by much.

 

Wow that's a crazy statistic. However, my point still stands. People are out driving cars all day long every day, in comparison guns don't get used much.

[Ben Beckerich]

The NRA has sold out gun owners in the past. I think they're probably better about it now- realizing they'd better modernize or die. But the FOPA of '86 was a huge blow to gun rights- thanks, old men with shotguns!

 

As to your explanation- I'm still wondering what deficiencies exist currently. What is the problem that warrants the change, and how will the change address the problem?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Cars kill more people than guns but there are way more cars around than guns and they get used more so that's a valueless statistic.

 

No.. actually there's a similar number of registered vehicles as guns in the US. There ARE more guns, but it's not by much.

 

Wow that's a crazy statistic. However, my point still stands. People are out driving cars all day long every day, in comparison guns don't get used much.

 

if guns don't get used much, they don't need regulated much...i mean if we follow your original logic

 

Look, guns ARE regulated, and so are cars. Cars may be regulated more, but they are used more and are involved in more death and damage to property.

[rob]

Look, guns ARE regulated, and so are cars. Cars may be regulated more, but they are used more and are involved in more death and damage to property.

 

well, guns are *barely* regulated. But regardless of that, just because cars kill more people doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about the fact that a psychotic felon can legally buy a gun no-questions-asked pretty easily.

 

Imagine the improvement to law enforcement if we could track the transfer chain of firearms

[Ben Beckerich]

Look, guns ARE regulated, and so are cars. Cars may be regulated more, but they are used more and are involved in more death and damage to property.

 

well, guns are *barely* regulated. But regardless of that, just because cars kill more people doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about the fact that a psychotic felon can legally buy a gun no-questions-asked pretty easily.

 

No.... no a felon cannot legally buy a gun. Period.

[Ben Beckerich]

But since he's a criminal, he's totally unhindered and uninhibited by that annoying fact. He does it anyway.

 

Which is the point.

[rob]

But since he's a criminal, he's totally unhindered and uninhibited by that annoying fact. He does it anyway.

 

Which is the point.

 

My point is that it's REALLY easy for a felon to get a gun without a background check. And the seller isn't breaking the law. I am under no obligation (in washington state) to verify somebody's eligibility if I sell them the gun I keep under my bed. I'm not a dealer. If you dispute this then you're truly uneducated.

 

I mean, sure -- a guy without a driver's license can probably buy a car on the black market and drive it anyway, but that doesn't mean we should abandon licenses and car registrations does it?

 

Ugh, I just can't understand why this is so difficult for people to grasp.