What counts as a "move" in a boulder/sport route?

[Rad]

I see people describe an 8 move V9, or 16 move V3, but I have no idea what a "move" is. A hand moves to a new hold? Foot moves count? Body shifts (e.g. drop knee, flag). I suppose it doesn't really matter, but it seems like common language these days so I'm curious.

Thx.

[wetslide]

It can be anywhere from one move- "Hey I stuck that dyno!". Or a short sequence, typically no longer than four or five actual limb movements.

[G-spotter]

Suppose you were writing a description of how to climb the problem. Any you made a bullet-point list like:

 

Starting with both hands on big jug and feet on smears,

 

1) RH to thumb catch up and left

2) Bump LF to poor edge near left knee

3) LH to chalked sidepull

4) Dyno to rail

5) Heel hook rail with RF

6) Static reach to lip

 

Each of those is "a move"

[matt_warfield]

I think it counts hand movements only, but I understand the confusion. Is a bump with one hand by 6 inches the same as a 4 ft. lunge?

 

The purpose of rock climbing is progress, which is indisputable.

[Rad]

I do write line by line descriptions, tied to a detailed route map, when I'm learning a project at my limit. And I have lines for foot movements as well as hand movements. I'm just curious what the standard is because there must be one. With versus w/o feet will change the number of "moves" by a factor of two...

Thanks.

[el jefe]

my understanding is that the usual practice is to refer to hand moves.

[Off_White]

The answer will be in Raindawg's next book, "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Bouldering and Sportclimbing" coming out next month. He's bound to be doing a book signing event at a gym near you.

[Water]

at a gym?? I am pretty sure he is going to be doing a wilderness promotion of the book at the base of infinite bliss

[matt_warfield]

for Raindawg, a move is to mark each bolt on a picture and then bitch from the comfort of his couch.

 

Things that defy the definition of "move"

 

-body position like backsteps and kneedrops

-milking rests

-clipping positions

-technical stemming where you inch your way up

-involved foot use like heel hooks or pulling with your toes

-bumps with your hands or merely shifting your feet

-slabs with many micro movements

 

So again, I say the goal is achieving the route successfully.

[Jason4]

Matt- while you have some good points I think most of that is not applicable to bouldering. I haven't been on a boulder problem yet that has sustained technical stemming, I've never looked for a good clipping stance on a boulder, and there aren't too many slabs that are actually part of the problem on a boulder that would be included in a move count. I agree that a kneedrop is questionable as a move, heel hooks and toe pulls are just as much a move as pulling with your hand.

 

In the end I think a move count is just a general idea of how long and involved a particular problem is. I wouldn't hold it against anyone if a guide said a problem with 7 moves and I was able to do it in 5 or more likely it said it was 5 and I shuffled hands enough to turn it into 7. It's the difference between a 5 move problem and a 15 move problem that's worth noting.

[Raindawg]

The answer will be in Raindawg's next book, "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Bouldering and Sportclimbing" coming out next month. He's bound to be doing a book signing event at a gym near you.

 

for Raindawg, a move is to mark each bolt on a picture and then bitch from the comfort of his couch.

 

The jerk store called and they're running out of both of you.

Seriously.

[matt_warfield]

Matt- while you have some good points I think most of that is not applicable to bouldering. I haven't been on a boulder problem yet that has sustained technical stemming, I've never looked for a good clipping stance on a boulder, and there aren't too many slabs that are actually part of the problem on a boulder that would be included in a move count. I agree that a kneedrop is questionable as a move, heel hooks and toe pulls are just as much a move as pulling with your hand.

 

In the end I think a move count is just a general idea of how long and involved a particular problem is. I wouldn't hold it against anyone if a guide said a problem with 7 moves and I was able to do it in 5 or more likely it said it was 5 and I shuffled hands enough to turn it into 7. It's the difference between a 5 move problem and a 15 move problem that's worth noting.

 

I agree with your comments but I was trying to cover trad, sport, and bouldering in one shot.

 

At Bishop CA Buttermilks, the Mandala is sit start, straight up, and the holds are thin and greasy. The Buttermilker involves intense body position and is mostly horizontal. Ironman involves hand traversing and then a heel hook and slapping the top for mortals.

 

The goal is is to complete the route rather than count a "move" as a hand movement, heel hook, bump, etc.

 

And I guanantee there are boulder problems that require stemming and slabs.

Edited October 9, 2012 by matt_warfield