Slesse NEB- avoiding pocket glacier death

[jesselillis]

My partner and I are planning to climb Slesse end of this month.

If you've approached the route prior to the Pocket Glacier sliding, could you recount such here?

 

Is Nelson's SCCvI early season approach description the best option? Can you add any details to that description?

[G-spotter]

My partner and I are planning to climb Slesse end of this month.

If you've approached the route prior to the Pocket Glacier sliding, could you recount such here?

 

Is Nelson's SCCvI early season approach description the best option? Can you add any details to that description?

 

It's really, really snowy in there this year.

http://bcrfc.env.gov.bc.ca/data/asp/realtime/asp_pages/asp_1d17p.html

 

Be prepared for lots of snowy mixed until mid-July at the earliest. Nearby snow pillows are recording near-record depths.

 

The snow pillow data shows us that as of today, snow water equivalent (roughly the depth of the snowpack, although it is weight rather than depth actually) is four times average values for this time of year.

[JasonG]

Wow, that is pretty amazing. Even snowier than last year, and nearly the maximum.

[Buckaroo]

I've done the full buttress twice, never the bypass. I think you are exposed either way. With the bypass you are closer to the pocket glacier so maybe you have less time to react if something goes. With the toe there's a section where you're scrambling the cirque wall and can't see the glacier so if it went you wouldn't be able to effectively dodge. So it's hard to gauge which approach is safer.

 

I think the big factor is ambient temp. One of the times we did it was on a warm day and there was more activity than I've seen on cooler days.

 

I would recommend doing the crossing at dawn, with the lowest ambient temps of the day, and try to pick a day with lower than average temps.

 

I think with the high snow and the time of year on the bypass you are going to be crossing an actual snow/ice field with the glacier at the top.

 

Here's a pic from a TR on the 23rd of May, so less than a month ago. So you're probably going to be crossing snow. This pic is looking straight on at the buttress so the horizontal snow band in lower/center left is on/across the route. The part that sticks up at the left end of the snow band is the pocket glacier.

 

It might even be more stable in these conditions. When the pocket glacier is smaller it's just hanging on slabs.

 

 

From this TR

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1069262

[G-spotter]

This pic is looking straight on at the buttress so the horizontal snow band in lower/center left is on/across the route. The part that sticks up at the left end of the snow band is the pocket glacier.

 

No it's not. You can't see the pocket glacier at all in this photo. This is a snow patch o the north flank of the NE butt, and the pocket glacier is hidden behind the NE ridge out of sight, and also way out of photo to the left.

[mocco]

As Drew notes, there is a lot of snow up there right now. I was in there 2 weeks ago, and was amazed at the thickness of the glacier. 3 stories at least. It will be impressive when/if it all goes. If you feel you have to climb NE Butt this early in the season, you will find crossing the glacier to be the crux. Direct start may be a bit safer, but will expose you to debris fall from above for longer. There will be snow on the route, which is both good and bad. An ascent in August or September may be more straightforward, but if a mixed bag is what you are seeking, you should go now. Good luck!

[Buckaroo]

Your right, I can see the gendarme where the bypass comes in... dohhh.

[ScaredSilly]

I have done the direct start and then some as we did not want to venture out on the pocket glacier. That was in early Aug and it was broken up with lots of water coming down. When we did the direct start we came directly below buttress and wandered up slabs and started climbing. We did three pitches one of which was 5.10+ so we obviously did not do the true direct but the indirect - direct. Picture below of the 5.10+ section.

 

[bush-in-sky]

Thanks for all the info (jesselillis's partner here).

 

It doesn't seem like many people take the bypass route when the pocket glacier is still there. Is that mainly due to exposure to ice/rock fall from above or difficulty in taking the bypass option due to broken/crevassed ice (that would then cause you to spend even more time in an exposed position)?

 

The direct start seems to have its share of exposure too, though I guess not as much from your comments.

 

 

[Buckaroo]

I think the bypass is the preferred route regardless of the pocket glacier condition, although it probably gets more climbs when the pocket glacier is gone.

 

This may be due to the fact the bypass route can be climbed in a day but it's much harder to climb the full buttress in that time.

 

Pretty sure the exposure is the same either way although the bypass would definitely be slower if the glacier is broken up and you have to climb through it.

[Buckaroo]

 

Red is the approach to the toe

Green is the bypass approach

Blue is the lower 6-8 pitches of the full buttress climb.

[ScaredSilly]

I would say what is drawn in red is not the preferred alternative to get the toe as it puts you under the pocket glacier. We came in from the right side, which while there is glacier/snow above you are less exposed overall.

[Buckaroo]

I would say what is drawn in red is not the preferred alternative to get the toe as it puts you under the pocket glacier. We came in from the right side, which while there is glacier/snow above you are less exposed overall.

 

I've never done it when it is like this pic. Both times we took the red line and both times the pocket glacier was much smaller and hanging at the top of what is shown here, and the right side was still pretty large.

 

The right side is also a hanging glacier, maybe just not quite as active although can you be certain of this? It's a crap shoot whichever way except for waiting for the pocket glacier to completely come off and that doesn't even happen some years.

[Don_Serl]

My partner and I are planning to climb Slesse end of this month.

 

 

June might be the worst month to consider climbng the NEB, and many other mountain objectives. There is more rain and fewer hours of sunshine in June than in May, in Vancouver - very unsettled... Plus, I used to notice that the cornices were there in May, and not in July...

 

 

If you've approached the route prior to the Pocket Glacier sliding, could you recount such here?

 

 

I've pirated Buckaroo's photo and added a couple lines. There is a gully beneath the toe of the east buttress that'll dump you out onto the snowfields which you can cross beneath the hanging glacier to reach the toe of the NEB. You still pass beneath the hanging glacier, but traversing is faster than climbing, so exposure is limited.

 

I've also climbed the yellow line, in winter, but summer ought to be OK too. The north glacier is far less active than the hanging glacier.

 

 

good luck

Edited June 23, 2012 by Don_Serl

[ScaredSilly]

What Don drew is pretty much the line we took in early August. The two patches of snow were much smaller but the pocket glacier was about the same size. There was a bit of debris from the north glacier but I would rather take my chances with it than being flushed by the pocket as there is lot of water coming from it. Thus it is well lubricated.

[G-spotter]

Early season approach to NEB through a broken-up pocket glacier is what killed Sertac Olgun

http://cascadeclimbers.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/701172

 

An ice block toppled over and crushed him. They had to wait two months before it was safe enough to retrieve the body.

[bush-in-sky]

Thanks for the route info and suggestions. We'll see how the weather is looking and re-evaluate. Might look at something less committing while the weather is still questionable and wait on Slesse til later in the summer.

[Don_Serl]

Thanks for the route info and suggestions. We'll see how the weather is looking and re-evaluate. Might look at something less committing while the weather is still questionable and wait on Slesse til later in the summer.

 

wise. on the one hand, you don't want to have 'old-timers' like myself pontificating on internet forums from the comfort of our studies dissuading you from trying stuff out there in the real world. on the other hand, you want to live to become an 'old-timer' yourself. timing is everything. there are hundreds of lovely routes available, some of them readily do-able even in foul weather with a deep, sloppy snowpack in June! heck, some of them are even on Slesse itself!

[jesselillis]

Hi Don (or anyone else interested in chiming in)

 

Of the hundreds of lovely routes available (and do-able even in foul weather with a deep, sloppy snowpack in June), if you were to recommend one or three, which would they be?

 

Lacking the experience of years in the cascades, my choices are usually motivated by either SCC or Steph Abeggs photos.

 

[G-spotter]

If you want to climb a rock route in June it's best to pick something low elevation or south facing, and/or on the dry side of the range. Slesse NEB is none of these three. Whereas if you went in to the Pasayten for instance, Cathedral SEB is probably prime right now.

[Don_Serl]

dru pretty much tagged it. early season, go for low, south or west facing, and dry (ish). as for my comment about some of the possibilities being on Slesse, what I had in mind was the NW face. fine route, blocky (so you could climb it in the rain, not that anyone would want to), might still hold a little snow on the big ledges but not so's it'd bother the climbing... and if you did that route, you'd have the advantage of sussing out the descent for later, when you do the NEB, thereby lessening the chances of getting benighted on the descent.

 

I always enjoyed Habrich and Sky Pilot early season. the west side routes on Old Settler would be fine. I used to like heading up into the Lytton backcountry to get dry mountain climbs in early July. west side of Matier. south facing routes in the Chehalis... or climb snow routes...

 

those are (of course) all in BC, and I've not much experience to suggest from for the WA Cascades. I do have one early-season trip that I learned from, that of climbing a route on the NE face of Stuart on the July 1st weekend many years ago, and huddling at the base of a fortunate rock rib high on the face as a huge cornice collapse swept by 10 or 15m away. we had previously been hit by minor falling chunks, in a more exposed position. not the place to be, at that time!

 

p.s. looking back thru my notebooks to refresh my memories, I see that I first climbed the NEB on June 18-19, so 'not climbing big mountain routes in June' is obviously a rule (like all rules) made to be broken! 1977, that was...

[G-spotter]

Conditions as of Monday. Super mobile right now...

 

Notice top left corner

[Don_Serl]

Notice top left corner

 

holy shzt, Drew! noticed bottom centre too - avvy ice towers must be 20 feet tall... shock and awe... but not surprise...

[Don_Serl]

p.s. I seem to spewing off here, waxing nostalgic, etc, but I'll say one final thing related to Slesse NEB: I first climbed that route with my first 'great' partner, John Wittmayer, and Squamish hard-corer Paul Piro. June '77, and it was snowy, wet, cool, and gloomy. We bivvied halfway up, no bags, just pulled on an extra sweater and pulled the packs up over our legs - not bad at all. And somewhere on route Paul said something that saved my life at least a couple times in the decades following:

"In the mountains, when you're not climbing, you're hiding!"

 

Thanks Paul - advice for the ages!

[bush-in-sky]

Nice photo - looks pretty menacing up there right now. Another time..