Scarpa Phantom Ultras for Mt. Shasta end of May?

[Sig Olsen]

Getting ready to order my first pair of alpine style boots. Mt. Shasta will be my first snow mountain as a primer for rainier next year and etc... I dont want to buy boot after boot so I figured I would buy the Ultras first since I am sure I will need them on Rainier. Will they be too hot for Shasta in May (23rd - 28th) window probably 3 days on the mountain. I assume I will be wearing them from the parking lot to the summit. I don't mind spending the 575 I was quoted from overseas.

[DPS]

Well, they probably won't be too hot, but it is more boot than you need, even for Rainier unless you are planning a mid winter attempt. For three seasons I go with a good quality, lightly insulated leather boot.

Edited March 9, 2012 by DPS

[Buckaroo]

It's a trade-off, something that is not too hot down low will be too cold up high, so expect to sweat in any boot that's right for Rainier.

 

A 4 season boot might not be overkill on Rainier, more of a safety factor.

 

With an overboot, these might even work on Denali.

[Sig Olsen]

Do you guys think the La Sportiva Trango Extreme Evo GTX is more appropriate? What temp range would the normal person find comfortable with either and smartwool mid weight socks?

 

[DPS]

I would recommend a more classic mountaineering boot like the La Sportiva Nepal EVO or the the Scarpa Mont Blanc.

[spionin]

Do you guys think the La Sportiva Trango Extreme Evo GTX is more appropriate? What temp range would the normal person find comfortable with either and smartwool mid weight socks?

i had a great time with these boots on rainier (july 2010), and wore them with lightweight smartwool ski socks. the conditions were far from warm, and the boots were very comfortable and appropriate on this trip. my two partners were wearing LS Nepal Evo and a Vasque boot (can't tell if it was the Ice 9000 or the Super Alpinista) on the same trip.

the key was to make sure the boots were clean and dry at the end of each day, and i kept them in my sleeping bag overnight. the one person in the group who did not do that ended up with frostbite.

[DPS]

I respect Spinonin's opinion and these appear to be an upgrade of the LS Trango Extremes which left me with numb feet for an entire month after a winter ascent of Chair Peak. One thing to bear in mind is La Sportiva tend to fit narrow dogs better and Scarpas a wideish foot better. Perhaps it is because I'm old, but I find leather boots easier to keep waterproofed than ones with Lorica and fabric uppers.

Edited March 10, 2012 by DPS

[Sig Olsen]

I recently switched to a wide boot and loved it. They were given to me and wondered why they fit so good and found they were wide versions of the boots. Not alpine boots. I appreciate all the comments by the way. Scarpa seems to be the boot company for me. The Ultras are 25% or more lighter than the nepal evo. So would you guys say the mont blanc gtx instead of the phantom ultra? Hopefully Shasta will be the warmest mountain for these boots :-)

[DPS]

The Ultras are lite weight boots for technical routes on cold mountains. They will work for Shasta, Rainier, ice climbing and many colder mountains. The Mont Blanc is an all around leather insulated boot perfect for Shasta, Rainier, ice climbing, but not for much colder mountains. It will be more comfortable in warmer temperatures than the Ultras. Does that help?

[Dane]

I suspect you have found the Ultra a little hard and expensive to obtain. Very little sole insulation in this boot. It is most comparable to the Trango Extreme GTX with a full gaiter than any other boot available currently. Or the Scarpa Pro Jorasses.

 

They are a lot lighter than the Nepal Evo or the Mt Blanc. But it is only a few ounces per boot. And they are much much easier to walk in as well than either leather boot. If they fit the Trango is a lighter option. But the Trango is a pure biotch once fully wet internally. In the mtns you'll never get it dried out.

 

The Ultra is not how ever any warmer than the Nepal Evo which I have also climbed in. No clue on the Mt Blanc from actual use but my take was the Mt Blanc wasn't going to be as warm as the Nepal.

 

What is missing from the conversation is the Ultra will be much more comfortable than any of the leather boots or the Trango as the Ultra breathes much better even with the gaiter. They are also much easier to dry out than the Trango and easier to keep dry as well. Thank Outdry technology for that.

 

I've been using the Ultra for a couple of years now and love them every where. But I generally climb the most in winter conditions. I've also use the Trango Extreme and the Nepal Evo in the same conditions. Ultra is a nice boot but I wouldn't spend almost $600 plus shipping and order them from Europe when a Phantom Guide or the new Batura 2 will do everything almost as well with little penalty except a tiny bit of weight and more warmth.

 

The Trango Extreme and Ultra are very specialised boots. You'll want to have your skills DIALED to keep either of the LWT boots dry and usable for Rainier. Because if you don't life will be miserable on the mtn.

 

Here are some real weights from a size 45

 

La Sportiva Batura 1st gen. 2#7oz / 1106g

La Sportiva Batura Evo 2nd gen. 2#9oz / 1170g

Batura 2 (gen 3) is not listed but available next month

La Sportiva Nepal Evo 2#10.5oz / 1205g

La Sportiva Trango Evo Extreme GTX 2#3oz (35oz) / 992g

Scarpa Phantom Ultra new 2010 model 2#3.5oz (35.5oz) / 1006g

Scarpa Phantom Guide new 2010 model 2#7.5oz / 1120g

Scarpa Phantom 6000 new 2010 model 2#10oz (a full dbl boot with intergal gaiter) / 1190g

 

The Guide splits the difference on weight and is still easier to walk in than any full leather boots...but not as easy as the Ultra. The bonus is you can get the Guide on sale locally if you look around and guarantee the fit which is not the same as the Ultra. The other good option I think is the Mt Blanc or the Pro Jorasses which is similar to the Trango Extreme. The Pro Jorasses gets used a lot in Canada during winter so it is easily warm enough for your objectives.

[Sig Olsen]

Thanks Dane. I have read your posts here and coldthistle countless times. My concern was mostly in walking comfort in all these boots then weight. So I think having a wide foot I will stick with the scarpa line. so I think the guide or ultras. I can get the ultras for 572 shipped. By the way, I live in florida so there is no place to actually try on any of these . I just dont want to risk getting to california and not finding my size then being stuck. If I can get a good price on the guides I will get them or just spend the 572 for the ultras. Thanks again everyone.

 

[Sig Olsen]

The Trango Extreme and Ultra are very specialised boots. You'll want to have your skills DIALED to keep either of the LWT boots dry and usable for Rainier. Because if you don't life will be miserable on the mtn.

 

 

Being new to alpine/snow/ice climbing I cannot imagine my skills are dialed in. :-) What basics for keeping them dry? What common mistakes will get them wet? I couldn't find anything relevent on a google search or reading of previous articles.

[Sig Olsen]

I do have OR expedition gaiters. :-)

 

[Dane]

You'll need to do this and more

 

the key was to make sure the boots were clean and dry at the end of each day, and i kept them in my sleeping bag overnight. the one person in the group who did not do that ended up with frostbite.

 

You don't use traditional gaiters with these boots so that they can breath. But a good pant gaiter is required. Do NOT tuck your pants into the boots. The boots will get wet if you do. Antiperspirant on you feet might be a good idea as well on multiday climbs.

[Sig Olsen]

Thanks Dane. I ordered the Phantom Guides. I have no reference to any other ones so I wont post anything about fit or quality or temp range... Thanks again everyone. Now one last thing... I will be asking in a couple weeks.

[sdizzle25]

The Trango Extreme and Ultra are very specialised boots. You'll want to have your skills DIALED to keep either of the LWT boots dry and usable for Rainier. Because if you don't life will be miserable on the mtn.

 

 

Being new to alpine/snow/ice climbing I cannot imagine my skills are dialed in. :-) What basics for keeping them dry? What common mistakes will get them wet? I couldn't find anything relevent on a google search or reading of previous articles.

 

Not to be soap boxy here, but imo if you're starting at the bottom the only way to really start to get your logistics "dialed" is by getting after it and climbing alot. you will make tons of small mistakes regarding system management causing momentary discomfort (or at least I have-and still do from time to time), and hopefully no big ones. Its kinda like the way to only dial in rope management is to get out there and climb bigger stuff.

[bistro]

Scarpa Omega double plastic boots might be a good choice. with the intuition liner they can be molded to your feet and are not too bad to walk in as they have a little bit of a rocker on them.

you may want to consider double books if you think you might travel to higher peaks than in the U.S. Mexico Volcano's or Equador Vplcano's. The Omega's though are not warm enough for Denali as the liners are not considered High Altitude. But for Shasta and raineer and other high places they might be a good choice. also one of the bonuses of double boots is, you can take the liners out and put them in your sleeping bag to dry. they fit in a sleeping bag better than a mountaineering boot.

[Sig Olsen]

You don't use traditional gaiters with these boots so that they can breath. But a good pant gaiter is required. Do NOT tuck your pants into the boots. The boots will get wet if you do. Antiperspirant on you feet might be a good idea as well on multiday climbs.

 

Recommend a pair of pants that fit this bill? Soft shell or hardshell? I dont have rain pants. For softshell I am guessing something like:

 

http://www.rei.com/product/795028/mountain-hardwear-nima-pants-mens-regular

 

or

 

http://www.rei.com/product/818993/mountain-hardwear-returnia-shell-pants-mens

 

these look sweet...

 

http://www.mountainhardwear.com/Men%27s-Quasar%E2%84%A2-Pant/OM4499,default,pd.html

 

Thanks in advance everyone...

[Dane]

Skip the hard shells. Might as well have the best:

 

http://nwalpine.com/fastlight-pant

 

http://nwalpine.com/nwalpinist-salopette

[sdizzle25]

Skip the hard shells. Might as well have the best:

 

http://nwalpine.com/fastlight-pant

 

http://nwalpine.com/nwalpinist-salopette

 

+1 for NWAlpine. Think of it this way, you will save at least $50 (or way more if you go with the Mountain Hardwear ski pants) and get a product (actually designed for climbing too!) that performs better, plus you get mountain karma because NWA is manufactured in the US.

Karma goes a long way climbing giant eroding piles of doggy doo, just saying.

[Sig Olsen]

Thanks again. I will be ordering a pair then next week. I do try to get american made, but there is just so little out there of high quality it seems.

[Sig Olsen]

Ordered the nw fast/light pants. Thanks again for the advice.

[Dane]

Anytime..and congrads. You'll now have a really squared away set up for most any condition on any mountain in the lower 48.

 

Be fun to eventually hear what YOU think of the gear.

[Sig Olsen]

The pants arrived yesterday. I wore them last night for a few hours. They really do fit and feel amazing. Thanks for the recommendation!