Why all the crag closures?

[JoeR]

Beacon, Trout Creek, Tieton, large areas of Smith, Leavenworth, Mt. Erie, The Menagerie, China Bend, etc etc etc.

 

These areas are being closed to protect birds which are not endangered or even threatened in many cases, some like prarie falcons are classified "least concerned" on the IUCN Red List . Bird of prey populations crashed hard and we almost lost many of them to DDT, but their numbers have recovered at an astonishing rate since it was outlawed. Birds like peregrine falcons are nesting in the middle of urban areas and building new nests very near to active climbing routes. USFW allowed falconers to take wild peregrines as pets in 2004. BLM closes Trout Creek while it investigates developing 2,000,000 acres for oil shale production and 431,224 acres for oil sands development.

 

I'm not arguing about it being important to protect wildlife. I'm just wondering where common sense comes into play? Where, and when, does it stop? What kind of closures are actually appropriate to protect important ecological resources?

 

This is an important conversation for the climbing community to have. Great things have been done when people get together and show up for public meetings and write the letters and make the calls. This trend of knee jerk closures is a huge threat to our ability to climb in the PNW.

 

Can't we protect the birds without losing our heads?

 

 

[bwwakaranai]

It sure seems like climbers and birds could co-exist at the crags without so many closures, doesnt it? If the species are endangered then yes I can understand that, but in the cases mentioned above are we dealing with endangered birds or just one hobby against another (bird lovers vs. climbers)?

[ZimZam]

I'm just wondering where common sense comes into play?

Dude. You're talking about the Federales. Come on. However, there are numerous other places to climb besides those. Birds have reproductive rights too, ya' know.

[mattp]

Joe,

 

I agree that some of the bird closures appear to be much broader than appropriate to even the needs of the nesting pair at issue and "common sense" may be lacking in some cases. It is a question of balance.

 

I like eagles and falcons, though. I bet most of those people who designate the nesting closures are trying to do their job - which as I understand it generally includes allowing recreational access while protecting nesting activity.

 

I encourage you to ask questions about common sense but I for one am willing to wait until the nesting season is over to climb [insert climb here] as long as there is plenty else I can climb in the mean time.

 

[ivan]

the problem is people haven't been writing enough strongly worded emails - viva la revolution!!!!

Edited February 23, 2012 by ivan

[el jefe]

the problem is people having been writing enough strongly worded emails - viva la revolution!!!!

 

this post is so ungrammatical i can't figure out what you are trying to say, ivan.

[kevbone]

Beacon, Trout Creek, Tieton, large areas of Smith, Leavenworth, Mt. Erie, The Menagerie, China Bend, etc etc etc.

 

These areas are being closed to protect birds which are not endangered or even threatened in many cases, some like prarie falcons are classified "least concerned" on the IUCN Red List . Bird of prey populations crashed hard and we almost lost many of them to DDT, but their numbers have recovered at an astonishing rate since it was outlawed. Birds like peregrine falcons are nesting in the middle of urban areas and building new nests very near to active climbing routes. USFW allowed falconers to take wild peregrines as pets in 2004. BLM closes Trout Creek while it investigates developing 2,000,000 acres for oil shale production and 431,224 acres for oil sands development.

 

I'm not arguing about it being important to protect wildlife. I'm just wondering where common sense comes into play? Where, and when, does it stop? What kind of closures are actually appropriate to protect important ecological resources?

 

This is an important conversation for the climbing community to have. Great things have been done when people get together and show up for public meetings and write the letters and make the calls. This trend of knee jerk closures is a huge threat to our ability to climb in the PNW.

 

Can't we protect the birds without losing our heads?

 

 

Its not just for the birds. The East face of Beacon is closed indefinitely to protect moss.

[kevbone]

But seriously your argument is valid. There are a pair of peregrine falcons nesting on top of the Fremont Bridge in downtown Portland. You don't see them closing the bridge do you?

[kevbone]

I think the Beacon climbing community has been hit the hardest. They dont close the rock to everyone....only the climbers. And since the climbers are out numbered 100 to 1 it is a little hard to swallow. So if anyone questions why the Beacon climbing community is always pissed off it is because of this reason.

[ivan]

The East face of Beacon is closed indefinitely to protect moss.

don't forgot the indian spirits too! did you see poltergeist?!? holy shit, would you want that to go down a pitch up that side?

[JoeR]

I'm just left wondering how long it will be before most everything is closed feb-sept.

 

 

As the numbers of these birds grows, they display classic dispersion behavior. Many are habituated to human presence to some degree. This habituation can only increase. They will continue to spread into active climbing areas. Birds of prey have few natural predators-mostly wolves, coyotes, and larger birds.

 

There may be many areas to climb in Washington Mattp and Zimzam, but Oregon is pretty limited in climbable rock. It is conceivable that if this trend of bird closures continues we'll be S.O.L. most of the year. What happens when the birds build a nest on Shiprock at Smith? Or Picnic Lunch Wall? Are we going to quietly let the State Parks shut down The Dihedrals when a prairie falcon builds a nest in Rattlesnake Chimney?

 

Kevbone, what has happened at Beacon is one of the reasons I am so concerned. I can't help but wonder what effect the shitshow of closures at Beacon has had on development in the PNW. Who wants to put the work in developing a crag when blanket closures are just a moss or bird away?

 

Climbers are an easy user group to single out for closures. How do we change that? How do we stop this trend of closures?

 

Maybe we get climbers into blm advisory committees. Audubon society, miners and cattle ranchers do this and move their agenda forward pretty well. BLM Advisory Committee

 

Edited February 24, 2012 by JoeR

[ivan]

so long as the peregrines don't start skiing?

[JosephH]

Ah, the annual Peregine bitchfest and misinformation thread - as inevitable as rain and relentlessly clueless year after year in that 'Groundhog Day' sort of way...

 

And why? Sutton's Law dude, Sutton's Law - always start with the obvious and be sure and not let anything remotely resembling a fact get in your way...

 

 

[kevbone]

Ah, the annual Peregine bitchfest and misinformation thread -

 

 

Let me guess....you are here to sort it all out right?

[JosephH]

Let me guess....you are here to sort it all out right?

 

Well, given the enduring cluelessness on the issue year after year that would fall in the category of:

 

[Drederek]

How do we stop this trend of closures?

 

Maybe we get climbers into blm advisory committees. Audubon society, miners and cattle ranchers do this and move their agenda forward pretty well. BLM Advisory Committee

Another way to start may be to get some ornithologists to study and scientifically back up your premeses. Now might be a good time to find some underutilizing their degrees.

 

Bottom line for me though is if they need the protection they should get it.

[JoeR]

You could address any mistakes I've made in the information Joseph. With the exception of my thoughts on their dispersal habits, all the information I posted was decently researched.

 

Or you could spray/flame this thread and flog your ego. Depends on what your goals are really.

 

Being the go-to ultimate expert on bird closures, what do the next 5-10 years have in store for us Joseph? Is there a double secret source of "real" bird information that only high-level closure operatives get to read?

 

Drederek, I agree with you. If ecological resources need protection, they should get it.

 

Getting ornithologists involved is a good idea, but most of the information is already out there. This has become more of a political issue than a scientific one unfortunately. Birds of prey have been one the poster children of the conservation and environmental movements. Frankly it was scary how close some of them came to extinction, but the recovery programs were amazing and have really worked.

 

Complex, highly political issue. The BLM, USFW, and State and Federal Park Services are in a tough spot. Having to issue golden eagle kill permits to wind farms with one hand and dealing with angry Trout Creek climbers with the other has to be maddening.

Edited February 24, 2012 by JoeR

[lummox]

Managing access in order to protect an endangered resource has been an effective way for NF and now BLM employees to up their pay grade. It's a manufactured crisis. Know what I'm saying?

[JosephH]

You could address any mistakes I've made in the information Joseph. With the exception of my thoughts on their dispersal habits, all the information I posted was decently researched.

 

Or you could spray/flame this thread and flog your ego. Depends on what your goals are really.

 

Being the go-to ultimate expert on bird closures, what do the next 5-10 years have in store for us Joseph? Is there a double secret source of "real" bird information that only high-level closure operatives get to read?

 

Drederek, I agree with you. If ecological resources need protection, they should get it.

 

Getting ornithologists involved is a good idea, but most of the information is already out there. This has become more of a political issue than a scientific one unfortunately. Birds of prey have been one the poster children of the conservation and environmental movements. Frankly it was scary how close some of them came to extinction, but the recovery programs were amazing and have really worked.

 

Complex, highly political issue. The BLM, USFW, and State and Federal Park Services are in a tough spot. Having to issue golden eagle kill permits to wind farms with one hand and dealing with angry Trout Creek climbers with the other has to be maddening.

 

Sorry, that wasn't directed at you so much as Kevin's obdurate annual rant. But you also have more than a bit of confusion, misinformation, and bias' going here as well. One place you are correct, however, is that the build-out of wind energy has occurred just as raptors were about 4/5's of the way through some multi-generational recovery programs to restore their annual nesting pair counts and natural ranges on a state-by-state basis. The effect has been fairly devastating nationwide and is quite unfortunately putting a renewed emphasis back on protecting productive eyries in an effort to try to counter the growing losses from more and more wind farms going in.

 

My involvement in all this abysmal bullshit goes back to the fall of 2004 as just another idjiot climber trying to put up a couple of FAs with the closure being a complete downer on those efforts. At that point, well-intentioned but naive (in fact, right now you sound just about exactly like I did around the third week of October 2004), I started out just trying to figure out what the deal with the closure was and fact-check the history, policy, law, stories, and written material around it. My idea being I'd take a shot at seeing what could be done to get it lifted or shortened as I'd had some experience in photojournalism and environmental politics and wanted every climbing day I could get in out there. Let's just say I ended up with quite the eye-opening multi-year learning process which unfolded enveloped in more complete and utter bullshit and outright lies than you could ever imagine.

 

The Long Sordid History of the Perennial CC Beacon Peregrine Palaver

 

And some general ST Peregrine discussion

 

I've also been putting in some time online and behind the scenes assisting efforts to get a permanent year-round closure lifted at Summit Rock, CA...

 

Ongoing efforts at Summit Rock

 

Same as it ever was (but I will say while Kevin is savantly moronic on the topic, at least he's completely upfront and honest player about it all which is more than you can say for some others...).

[stevetimetravlr]

Great example of a guy who says one thing, but behind the scenes does something completely different.

Tell us the story of how you got the Totem Pole closed to climbing Joe.

[JosephH]

Speak of the devil...yes, you are the perfect example of exactly that guy. It's absolutely remarkable how some folks can bend reality and flat out lie to suit their personal interests without the slightest regard for facts or the truth - but, then it wouldn't be the Beacon reality distortion field otherwise. As I said, same as it ever was...

[stevetimetravlr]

Again, what about the Totem Pole? Are you denying that you were instrumental in getting it closed to climbing?

[JosephH]

So you want to talk about your blatant lying mischaracterization of my involvement with Totem Pole. You sure about that? Because - like everything I do - I own my shit, am completely open and upfront about it, and aren't skulking around telling lies and half-truths. Just let me know as I'd be more than happy to lay out the details on that story so you can just keep digging that hole of yours a little deeper here.

[stevetimetravlr]

How am I lying? If you were not instrumental in getting it closed, then what is it you did exactly? I'm sure everyone would love to know the TRUTH, and get to know the real you.

For the THIRD time, what about the Totem Pole closure?

[kevbone]

Great example of a guy who says one thing, but behind the scenes does something completely different.

 

This is my take on Joseph as well. The words he uses on cc.com and other web discussions are totally different than his behind the scenes actions. Which are now coming to light.