sexual_chocolate Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Hey it seems like there's a fair number of skilled carpenters on this site, so I have a question. I'm popping out my 6*8 bathroom 2 feet, in the form of a bay. It'll extend to the edge of the soffit, staying under the eave. My question is this: would it be ok to frame it in with 2*4s instead of the standard exterior wall 2*6s? I'd save some interior space, and the whole unit would be lighter and cheaper, too. And the loss in insulation wouldn't be that big of a deal, since it is the bathroom, right? Any feedback? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Typically, framing only represents 10% of total construction cost. Therefore, you're not saving that much. Nor would you gain much space by using 2X4 versus 2X6 depending on the length of the wall pop-out. Otherwise, without seeing your house, it's tough to give an opinion. Why was the house framed with 2X6 in the first place? Are the walls exceptionally tall? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthumbs Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I'd frame 2X6 for the added insulation space and to keep the inspectors off my ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forrest_m Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 or use rigid insulation to get the same R value - it's more expensive, but if it's only one bathroom wall, the total square footage is probably not that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt.Caveman Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by trask: I'd frame 2X6 for the added insulation space and to keep the inspectors off my ass. I dont think there's an inspector that wants to see your ass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: My question is this: would it be ok to frame it in with 2*4s instead of the standard exterior wall 2*6s? I'd save some interior space, and the whole unit would be lighter and cheaper, too. And the loss in insulation wouldn't be that big of a deal, since it is the bathroom, right? 2X4 stick construction will be plenty adequate, although I agree that the "space" savings is negligible. Spray-in insulations would be most efficient (and you could probably DIY using the stuff in cans for this small an area) although they will have an off-gassing period. Because most exterior bathroom walls are the ones with the plumbing, you probably won't be replacing or adding any electrical outlets. If you do, however, make sure they are GFCI's and make sure you insulate around the boxes (spray-in polyisocyanates are a real plus here) as power outlets are typically the greatest source of drafts. Insulate the hell out of your bathroom (no one likes a cold seat/cold floor and no one wants to listen to you toot your horn or puke your guts out) and ventilate it even better. If you're substantially increasing the size of the bathroom then you may want to recheck the adequacy of your venting. You might also want to check and make sure it's venting to the outdoors, and not your attic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted October 4, 2002 Author Share Posted October 4, 2002 Thanks for the input. I think I will go with the 2*6. It'll give me more wall to put in cool in-wall shelving, too. One more question. The 6 feet of wall that i'm knocking out is a load-bearing wall, with 4 truss ends resting on the top plate, which is 2 2*4s stacked. Is this enough support, or should I shore it up, and if so, how? Gratefully yours, the Rookie Carpenter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted October 4, 2002 Author Share Posted October 4, 2002 No plumbing in the exterior wall, although I might put in an outlet. thanks for the input. And i imagine you're talking about plumbing venting? nothing's moving that much, and only about 2' by 6' is being added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted October 4, 2002 Author Share Posted October 4, 2002 testing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freeclimb9 Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by sexual chocolate: One more question. The 6 feet of wall that i'm knocking out is a load-bearing wall, with 4 truss ends resting on the top plate, which is 2 2*4s stacked. Is this enough support, or should I shore it up, and if so, how? dude, you're scaring me. In a word, no. Two 2X4s over a 6' span won't be enough support. If you want to be crude, but effective, frame the opening like any other (i.e. put in a header with support posts). It might be easily possible to hang the truss ends in joist brackets on a header embedded at ceiling height (which would give a one level ceiling), but it's practically impossible to say without seeing the house. The load will determine beam width. BTW, you'll have issues with moisture within the walls. At the very least, use a low permeability interior paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Uh-oh, now we're getting into the dangerous liability area... Cutting out truss support studs should make you very nervous!!! I wouldn't be thrilled about doing it without an appropriately sized header/trimmer support. You're basically putting in a new 6' X 8' window or door in the side of the house. If you have any double doors or large picture windows in the house, figure out how they were framed, and then replicate it. A better idea would be to find a licensed contractor and pay her for a half hours time in order to tell you how to do it. They should be able to eyeball it and tell you if a 4X6 header resting on 2X4 (or 2X6) trimmers is adequate, or if you need to go further. You can just finish a soffit over it rather than lower the entire ceiling. I hate trusses, and I won't own a house built with them, and I only remodel my own homes, so I've avoided them successfully for many years... By venting I was referring to a bathroom fan. These are generally sized by sq. ft. You're adding about 100 sf of space. If your fan is undersized, then less moisture is cleared when the shower is running, which means more moisture is left in the house. Poor moisture handling plagues new (post 1960's) construction more than anything else. You would be shocked to find the number of bathroom vents that just vent into the attic space. It's a criminal act, one which has fueled more work for remodelers and roofers than anything else. An ounce of prevention... You'll get much better advice over at Fine Homebuilding. Breaktime Good luck, and don't knock your house down... -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexual_chocolate Posted October 4, 2002 Author Share Posted October 4, 2002 Ugh! I just fell through my floor into the basement.... I think I figured it out. I'll double a 2*6 for a header and rest it on doubled studs at both sides of the room, flush with the walls, then just block up to the two 2*4s that the rafters and ceiling joists rest on. Luckily my ceilings are the old school 9 footers (1909 craftsmannish house), so the header will only bring my bay ceiling down to 8', and i'll leave the rest at 9'. I'd rather have it all at 9', but I couldn't anyways because of the rafter drop. Thanks for the help and feedback! Next I'll be adding a second floor and a staircase! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 This is beutiful! The sybiotic marraige of Cascadeclimbers.com with Finehomebuildings Breaktime. I think I'm going to buy either a DeWalt Cabinet saw or a Powermatic 64. You will definetly need to header off the truss ends where they formerly landed on your top plate. A 2x6 would do it ( rough rule of thumb - 1" headr height/foot horizontal header length), but with 9' ceilings, go with a 8" header. What is the detail for the floor? A new foundation? Piers? Or some cantilevered system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 quote: Originally posted by crazyjz: I think I'm going to buy either a DeWalt Cabinet saw or a Powermatic 64. Don't do it! Go with some old iron, i.e. Rockwell, Oliver, Yates... You'll never regret it! old iron -t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyjizzy Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Ted I think your probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_Schuldt Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 Seems like a lot of work for only 2 feet. I would just deal with the bathroom as is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrible_ted Posted October 5, 2002 Share Posted October 5, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Dave Schuldt: Seems like a lot of work for only 2 feet. I would just deal with the bathroom as is. Always nice to see a professional offer some advice... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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