Japan

[j_b]

The reason so many perished in this quake were twofold.First was its ungainly timing,coming at a time when most inhabitants were asleep in their beds.

 

The second was man made.The high rise apartments that housed the residents of the largest industial city in Turkey, were built in the most appalling manner.

 

Izmit is home to Turkeys vast petro-chemical, automative and construction industries, but it would seem that their employees were forced to live in the most sub-standard of dwellings.

 

Findings from the subsequent inquiry into the quake found that contractors had built these apartment blocks using a more ‘ sand to cement ‘ ratio in the concrete mix and low grade re-inforcement girders.There is no code of practise in Turkey for building standards.

 

http://factoidz.com/the-turkish-earthquake-of-1999/

[murraysovereign]

So what do you suggest should be done to address the problem of people not being able to afford to build to your standard? They should not be allowed to live in any kind of shelter at all unless it's build to a 9.0 standard? As long as people can't afford to live in such structures, they will find a way to construct something they can afford to live in, whether it's up to standard or not.

 

I'm not saying there's no place for building standards, and some degree of regulation of the construction industry. I'm just pointing out that your claim that building collapses in Turkey - and now Italy - can be stopped by tightening up regulations is simplistic and naive.

[prole]

Of the demographic you're describing, how many are renters?

[prole]

Are you suggesting that building and safety standards need to be lowered to accommodate for the poor or finding ways to mitigate those conditions?

Edited March 11, 2011 by prole

[murraysovereign]

Are you suggesting that building and safety standards need to be lowered to accommodate for the poor or finding ways to mitigate those conditions?

 

I'm saying that the poor can't afford to build to 9.0 standards. Is that contentious?

 

What to do about it? I don't know. I guess eliminating poverty from the world would be a big step in that direction. How do you propose we do that? I suppose we could come up with some sort of regulation that would make it illegal to earn less than, say, $40,000 per year. And then it would just be a matter of enforcing that regulation, cracking down hard on all those people who fail to comply.

[j_b]

Safe technologies don't have to be expensive. If you don't have the funds to build a tall structure that is safe, don't build a tall structure. Low structures built out of flexible materials are usually quite earthquake resistant. The huts of Iran and Turkey that crumble are usually adobe buildings without wood infrastructure.

[murraysovereign]

Safe technologies don't have to be expensive. If you don't have the funds to build a tall structure that is safe, don't build a tall structure. Low structures built out of flexible materials are usually quite earthquake resistant. The huts of Iran and Turkey that crumble are usually adobe structure without wood infrastructure.

 

...because they can't afford to buy lumber to build wood-frame houses, because their countries have no forests, so all the lumber has to be imported. Whereas mud and straw are basically free, so that's what they build with. Unless you want to start providing everyone in the world with free lumber you're not going to get a lot of compliance with a regulation that mandates wood-frame houses for subsistence farmers in Turkey and Iran.

[j_b]

It is a resource issue in the most impoverished regions of the world but my point is that most everywhere there is a cheap enough and safe solution.

[G-spotter]

Japanese buildings are required by law to be Gojira-proof.

[prole]

Are you suggesting that building and safety standards need to be lowered to accommodate for the poor or finding ways to mitigate those conditions?

 

I'm saying that the poor can't afford to build to 9.0 standards. Is that contentious?

 

What to do about it? I don't know. I guess eliminating poverty from the world would be a big step in that direction. How do you propose we do that?

 

Are these questions even worth asking anymore? Are we so resigned to global apartheid that we're only tasked with figuring out how either lower our standards to accommodate it or protect ourselves from being touched by it? I don't know.

[Lucky Larry]

Easiest building code slutlution is no codes--make people responsible for their own decisions in building a home, and really make the buyer beware responsibly.

 

I'm sure most of you know of someone that bought a lemon POS home in the last bubble in spite of all the fucking so-called checks, inspections(people don't even read them or know what the fuck they are even looking at--blinded), bullshit bank loans on turds. Homes less than ten years old have fucking shit siding already falling off--some fucking code huh?

 

Let people live in tents, card board huts etc that are so light it would not matter if it fell down. oh fucking no way. we can't let people make their own decisions, what would happen to property values? they would end up being where they should be--dirt cheap. rant, cough, choke.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Lucky Larry

[Jim]

Are you suggesting that building and safety standards need to be lowered to accommodate for the poor or finding ways to mitigate those conditions?

 

I'm saying that the poor can't afford to build to 9.0 standards. Is that contentious?

 

What to do about it? I don't know. I guess eliminating poverty from the world would be a big step in that direction. How do you propose we do that?

 

Are these questions even worth asking anymore? Are we so resigned to global apartheid that we're only tasked with figuring out how either lower our standards to accommodate it or protect ourselves from being touched by it? I don't know.

 

I think hyjacking another innocuous discussion in Spray into the inevitable arm-waving exercise will solve the world-cum- corporate-vassal problem. Really.

[prole]

What I do know is that the questions are only going to become more pressing as marginalized and "redundant" populations interface with the predicted extreme weather/rising sea levels, food insecurity, ecological crisis, etc. You're right, simply imposing (or eliminating) building codes isn't going amount to much.

 

 

 

[prole]

I think hyjacking another innocuous discussion in Spray into the inevitable arm-waving exercise will solve the world-cum- corporate-vassal problem. Really.

 

What's your point again?

[j_b]

What I do know is that the questions are only going to become more pressing as marginalized and "redundant" populations interface with the predicted extreme weather/rising sea levels, food insecurity, ecological crisis, etc. You're right, simply imposing (or eliminating) building codes isn't going amount to much.

 

Yet, showing what codes can do to avert a much bigger catastrophe seems like a worthwhile exercise.

[Jim]

I think hyjacking another innocuous discussion in Spray into the inevitable arm-waving exercise will solve the world-cum- corporate-vassal problem. Really.

 

What's your point again?

 

Change the channel already. Or at least get more witty. It's getting old.

[j_b]

Pointing out the resounding success of Japanese building regulations and how it clashes with the world view currently being shoved down our throat by the extremist right wing doesn't seem like hijacking an innocuous discussion to me.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

What I do know is that the questions are only going to become more pressing as marginalized and "redundant" populations interface with the predicted extreme weather/rising sea levels, food insecurity, ecological crisis, etc. You're right, simply imposing (or eliminating) building codes isn't going amount to much.

 

 

 

Yeah, keep asking "questions" prole.

[prole]

And you keep voting for Sarah Palin, Kojak!

[j_b]

There appears to be little danger of any kind of a radioactive release. Still, 'oceanfront reactors' might not be the best idea....

 

"Pressure inside a reactor at Tokyo Electric Power Co's quake-hit Fukushima Daiichi plant may have risen to 2.1 times its designed capacity, Japan's trade ministry said on Saturday, exceeding the 1.5-times level announced a few hours earlier."

[G-spotter]

Sarah Palin can see Godzilla from her house.

[j_b]

How would like to have that Blankenship dude (of coal fame) own one of these new nuclear plants they are trying to build?

[G-spotter]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molten_salt_reactor

 

Seems like the government regulators should mandate these over water-cooled reactors.

[G-spotter]

From Wikipedia:

 

Four were swept out to sea by the tsunami off the coast of Crescent City, California, United States, near the Oregon border, with two of them later found alive, one still missing, and one dead.[65] A man who was taking pictures of the tsunami waves on the Northern California coast was also swept out to sea and is missing. The United States Coast Guard is now searching for him.[66]

 

"dude. tsunami's coming. I'm gonna go down to the beach to take pictures of it!"

[KaskadskyjKozak]

From Wikipedia:

 

Four were swept out to sea by the tsunami off the coast of Crescent City, California, United States, near the Oregon border, with two of them later found alive, one still missing, and one dead.[65] A man who was taking pictures of the tsunami waves on the Northern California coast was also swept out to sea and is missing. The United States Coast Guard is now searching for him.[66]

 

"dude. tsunami's coming. I'm gonna go down to the beach to take pictures of it!"

 

If only the gov't regulated this activity!