kevbone Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 fuck all you whiners and bitchers. I think bill is loosing it in his old age. Quote
ivan Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 sure it's a beautiful sunny day and you could be owning on the s side right now, but before the bitchfest begins, thought i might remind The Brethern, there is a side that didn't close, one that still even holds some adventure up high if'n you're willing to scare the holy shit out of yourself Damn Ivan. Looks like you initiated the bitchfest. Sadly, the only way to make it stop is to quit responding online. Just stop. You already offered to climb it with Pink, either you go out together and do it or this goes for 20 more fucking stupid assed pages. (I'm excluding Timetravelers posts from that statement) fuck all you whiners and bitchers. i make it a pt never to disagree w/ me elders, so i'll wrap it up now there bill feel free to fence over fornicating falcons forthwith fawkers! Quote
kevbone Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Hey Ivan. How many bolts did YOU personally drill? Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 R U talking Ozone or Beacon Kevbone? Quote
Teh Phuzzy Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Looks like there is some fun to be had out there in the winter. Now that the hardware is out and my knee feels like my own, it'd be real nice to get back out there again; good head clearing after midterms Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Wait - so I just pulled the topo in your original post down onto my machine, blew it up, and looked at it closely for the first time. It indicates you guys put up a five pitch line with 56 (14p / 42b) fixed placements on it? Is that correct? How many of that count are new? I mean jeebus, hate being a downer here, but that's the aid renaissance? Does Opdycke have any idea a fixed pro count like that went down (or up, I suppose)? And he's ok with it if he does know? To be honest, I almost don't know how to respond to that count - yeah, it's way below the Compressor count, but at Beacon? Over five pitches? Doesn't that seem a tad excessive, or like maybe a 'line' really wasn't there to do? i think i actually agree with you on this one joseph.... I just realized that the above had been said before but I couldn't remember to whom, but now its coming to me.........it was said to Warren Harding, Royal Robbins, Jim Bridwell, Yvon Chouinard, Steve Gerberding, Layton Kor, Charlie Porter, Dean Caldwell, Fred Becky, this list goes on. You're in good company Ivan, and know you struck it rich when you get the old guards panties in a uproar! I can hardly wait to get back on that biatch and send it, fawk yeah! Quote
kevbone Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Hey Ivan. How many bolts did YOU personally drill? on Stone Soup? Beacon. Quote
kevbone Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Ivan, how did you install 48 bolts without owning a drill? Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 ok Kevbone, I see. I just thought you might be referring to your Ozone grid bolting and couldn't possibly be denigrating Stone Soup with its occasional fixed peckerhead or bolt to keep ya off a ledge fall or to bypass a blank section, but maybe you were......? Keeping it real baby....this shit is fun....! 8D Quote
kevbone Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 ok Kevbone, I see. I just thought you might be referring to your Ozone grid bolting and couldn't possibly be denigrating Stone Soup with its occasional fixed peckerhead or bolt to keep ya off a ledge fall or to bypass a blank section, but maybe you were......? Keeping it real baby....this shit is fun....! 8D Why do you hate America? That is about as arbitrary of a statement as you saying I grid bolted Ozone. And you are right….good times on the web. Quote
crimper Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 i am still waiting for the day this site and these threads brings people together. it is so rare to see someone say "you know, at one time i disagreed with you, but your superior logic and name-calling during the course of our internet argument has made me agree with you!" has that ever happened??? instead, each side gets entrenched, nothing gets resolved, and you wind up with weird grudges and vibes. two of my bolts got chopped last year by opdycke, of all people, and the experience of debating the issues on this site and in person turned me off to these spats so much i still haven't had the heart or desire to replace the bolts even though opdycke gave me two replacement ones. something tells me that years from now i'll be glad i invested more time in my actual childen than "my" routes. nobody will care as much as you about your route, or how it looks on paper (or on screen) on one twentieth of one page in a 300 page guidebook. they'll just remember how you made them feel when you were around. that said, props to taking the time to craft a route, or clean an old one, because we all benefit from thoughtful uses of local stone. Quote
kevbone Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 and you wind up with weird grudges and vibes. An't that the truth. Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I thought it was just fun and games and at the end we all have a group hug, go sport climbing, and drink Red Bulls. Its my birthday today, and I think thats what I going to do...yep, I'm officialy a old dog, son of a ..... 52 years and it ain't getting any easier. Quote
denalidave Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I thought it was just fun and games and at the end we all have a group hug, go sport climbing, and drink Red Bulls. Its my birthday today, and I think thats what I going to do...yep, I'm officialy a old dog, son of a ..... 52 years and it ain't getting any easier. HAPPY BIRTHDAY STT! Quote
JosephH Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Hmmm, whining and bitching? So questioning the appropriateness of a drill-up aid line in 2010 at a place like Beacon is whining and bitching? Man, if that's the case I'd say you've circled the wagons on your little social circle a tad too tight. Wow. I'm still stunned that this is what the aid renessaince was all about and culminated in. And "classic" and "directissima"? Really? In the same way as the Compressor is suppose. And we're supposed to compare this to the Dawn Wall? Not in 2010 with free lines going up on El Cap and everyone there striving to do existing aid lines as clean as possible. That argument is completely bankrupt. And this happened at the same time Opdycke chopped two bolts on Bryan's free line? That's a mind boggling contrast in standards. Sorry, but I'm never buying the idea that your social contract makes everything and anything alright. Unless you guys are turning "keeping it real" into a bumper sticker and secret code for we did it so it's alright and can't be wrong or questioned. But you're right, had you said what do you think about doing a high count drill and pin up job up the north side for the sake of a 'line' to the railing, I'd have never been down for that. Sorry, its way too retro in a way that advances neither free nor aid climbing in 2010 but rather something done for the sake of the variety of 'fun' you guys have gravitated to. Now I guess I get the DZ bolt ladder talk better, but not the point. Quote
kevbone Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I thought it was just fun and games and at the end we all have a group hug, go sport climbing, and drink Red Bulls. Its my birthday today, and I think thats what I going to do...yep, I'm officialy a old dog, son of a ..... 52 years and it ain't getting any easier. Happy Birthday!!! Quote
ivan Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 i'll take your opinion far more seriously after you've done it, or at least rapped the line, joe. Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Thanks Dave! and just want to say it officialy, I was just razzing everybody in fun. Kevbone I love all your bolts dude, I'd clip em twice if I could. No need for anyone to be overly sensitive or try to get in touch with their feelings. We are a Band of Brothers, and all that. Quote
kevbone Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 i'll take your opinion far more seriously after you've done it, or at least rapped the line, joe. I have been saying that to him about Infinite Bliss for years. Good luck. Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 yeah hey, Joe, you got to do the line to knock it. Otherwise you are just doing a "Grossberg" as on Wings of Steel and taking a dump on someones ropes because you can't get up it yourself. I'm not saying you can't get up it or... well maybe I am.... :kisss: Quote
JosephH Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 It isn't a matter of me doing it any more than needing to do ignorant bliss. It's a matter of perception and appropriateness. It's like saying I'd need to climb the proposed bolt ladder up DZs fabulous Oracle left corner wall over the roof that's being worked free. I do? When I can stand back and look at it from the ground and know exactly what it's all about? Exactly what about that proposed bolt ladder would I need to do in order to understand it? The only reason I say Grossman should do WoS is because he keeps misrepresenting what was involved when one look up tells you otherwise and I am not doing that in this case (or ignorant bliss). I've been on that route and studied that wall at Beacon and know just what's involved - the question is whether the 'line' is worth the fixed pro count for what it advances. You guys say it is, I question that for the bolting precedent it sets. Look, if you posted that bolt and pin count today on Supertopo for a new aid route up El Cap or Cerro Torre the Valley would erupt in howls - but I'm not supposed to question a route at Beacon because it's somehow not playing nice with the group. This is where 'the group' then starts feeling a bit too insular, self-absorbed, and cultish/clanish for my tastes. If you did this line with McGown thirty years ago it would be one thing, but today? Can't quite get my arms around that other than simply it being a matter of the 'fun' factor. Quote
ivan Posted February 7, 2011 Author Posted February 7, 2011 unlike infinite bitching, there are very few bolt followed by bolt bits, there's pretty much always some gera that has to be placed in between, and the pins that are fixed could of course be pulled, but the idea was to not rape the shit out of the rock over the course of a dozen ascents, an idea i know you're in support of. Quote
JosephH Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 Definitely leave them fixed if it means someone is going to try and put another one in the same spot in later. Quote
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