layton Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 sorry if this has been discussed. I haven't been paying attention to cord technology at all. Last I used was a 6mm 60mm perlon rap line (can you say sketchy?) or an 8mm static haul line. price aside, what cool fancy cords are out there for use as a super skinny tag line to rappel from that are a wee bit safer than 6mm perlon? Quote
BigSky Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Looking forward to some discourse, I was about to start a similar topic in the next day or two. Quote
OlympicMtnBoy Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I use a 7.1 half of a twin setup, but it's certainly not static. Mostly cause that's what I have and it works. Might be better options out there, wasn't Mikey or Colin talking about some "Alpine Escape Line" a few threads back? Maybe in that rehash of Colin's Mountie talk. Quote
Farrgo Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I bring my 6mm rap line when I don't expect to rap, but the climb is too committing (for myself) to launch out with a single cord. That being said, my 6mm has never left the pack. I have rapped on other 6mm cords and it was difficult... and scary. In general you just need to go with the rope system that is going to work for the climb you're doing. If you know you're doing 10+ raps might as well go with doubles or twins... you'll save time over screwing with a tangly perlon cord. Quote
Coldfinger Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 I've paired up a Beal Rando with 30m of 5mm Mammut pro cord pull cord. The Rando works quite well on its own as well. Quote
robpatterson5 Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 craziest I ever heard of was being told how someone has used a 60m 2mm or 3mm cord as a pull line on the Grand Teton. Worked for them but if it had broken.... 8D Thats the lightest I've ever heard of, sounds like the Esprite line is the way to go though. Quote
DanielHarro Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Last spring I brought a 6mm PMI tag line with me to the Alaska rage and it only lasted 10-12 rapels before I got a core shot it in... Average about $10 buck per rapel. I am going to look at the Mammut 6mm ProCord for this season. Where can you find the 6mm Alpine Personal Escape Rope at? Quote
robpatterson5 Posted January 29, 2011 Posted January 29, 2011 Think Esprite (sp?) in Canada makes that - comments have been that it is better then 5.5 TecCord Quote
layton Posted January 30, 2011 Author Posted January 30, 2011 thanks i'll look into it. seems kinda heavy (the esprit) however Quote
Coldfinger Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 I checked into the Esprit ropes and they're both heavy and expensive, then the nice lady asked for my SSN (yeah like I'm giving that to somebody in another country--even Canada and WTF for). So.... Seemed to me like you either do a 5mm pullcord or use a 7.7mm twin rope. Quote
Wallstein Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 I think the weight that Esprit is giving for the 6mm Alpine personal escape rope is wrong. Mine is currently cached up in the mountains so I can't weight it but maybe I can go weigh Colins. And as far as the SSN numbers goes. Not sure what that is about but I bought three of them a couple months ago and it was a smooth transaction. If you really want something that is going to be reliable and work in the alpine the 5mm isn't the rope. I WOULD NEVER EVER use it in Patagonia or another place where you are for sure going to be rapping. A 5mm might be ok if you are purely rapping snow gullies or on ice, but anytime rock is involved you are just asking for trouble. And re-leading on a 5mm rope after your main rope is stuck is one of the worst experiences I've ever had. Super duper pucker fest on 5.11+.... The 7.7 is definitely heavier and larger than the esprit, but it can be used as lead line if your main line is chopped. Quote
Autoxfil Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 http://innermountainoutfitters.net/catalogentry.php?search=&page=all&catalogentryid=645&brand=PMI This stuff is extremely stiff and tough. The stiffness which sucks on a lead rope produces extra friction on a skinny rap line, and helps dramatically with reducing tangles, a big problem with skinny lines. Regular PMI cord is stiff as heck anyway, so I bet that stuff is great. I got a 60m 7mm Eidelweiss cord for tag-line and emergency rappel use because it was dry-treated. However, it's very supple and tangles easily, and the dry-treat doesn't seem to do anything anyway. http://www.gearexpress.biz/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=G&Product_Code=5222 Quote
layton Posted January 30, 2011 Author Posted January 30, 2011 I think the weight that Esprit is giving for the 6mm Alpine personal escape rope is wrong. Mine is currently cached up in the mountains so I can't weight it but maybe I can go weigh Colins. And as far as the SSN numbers goes. Not sure what that is about but I bought three of them a couple months ago and it was a smooth transaction. If you really want something that is going to be reliable and work in the alpine the 5mm isn't the rope. I WOULD NEVER EVER use it in Patagonia or another place where you are for sure going to be rapping. A 5mm might be ok if you are purely rapping snow gullies or on ice, but anytime rock is involved you are just asking for trouble. And re-leading on a 5mm rope after your main rope is stuck is one of the worst experiences I've ever had. Super duper pucker fest on 5.11+.... The 7.7 is definitely heavier and larger than the esprit, but it can be used as lead line if your main line is chopped. Hey Mike! Maybe they are making different thicknesses now and that dude got quoted a thicker line? What is the diameter of the alpine escape rope...and yeah if you have the time, what's the weight? I agree with you about the tangles and "stuckable" nature being super unsafe in the mountains, and in a place like patagonia, worht the extra weight. For something with a few double rope raps where you could still manage to get off, then a 5.5 is ok. Quote
Highlander Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 I replaced my 7mm cord with the bluewater 6mm searchline, which seems to be working well. It's sheath is suppose to be resistant to heat so it won't melt while rapeling and its as strong as 7mm cord. I found a supplier that sells them for 50% off retail on ebay. $89 http://cgi.ebay.com/BlueWater-6mm-x-200-Technora-SearchLine-/280605087651?pt=BI_Security_Fire_Protection&hash=item41555dd7a3 Quote
Wallstein Posted January 30, 2011 Posted January 30, 2011 They say 6mm but it seams a bit fatter but still smaller than any 7mm I've seen. I haven't been able to weigh Colin's but I did just talk to Josh Wharton about it. He has two of them. One 65m and one 100m. He said 28g/m. He also thinks its the best thing on the market. I also know Dean Potter has used one a fair bit while climbing down in Patagonia. Those are three ok endorsements.... Josh also thought the rope had about a 6% elongation, which would make it much less scary to re-lead on then a 5.5 tech cord. I paid $130 for mine, which in my opinion isn't that expensive at all. A piece of 5.5 tech cord would cost WAY WAY more. Quote
layton Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 why would you need a 100m? does he lead on it? Quote
genepires Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 soloing a route but want to do 50m rappels? Quote
Mentat Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 One suggestion I'sd like to throw in for consideration is Blue Waters Canyon Pro, STRONG and light but not cheap! It has a dual sheath that likes to slip the first few rappels and once the sheath is worn in its fine. Did I mention its light? Oh and it has a firm hand so its not a tangled mess to handle and the negligible elongation so it slides glassy smooth over rock, so if it gets stuck you can really reef on it and it may just pop out! I’ve also hear of people using it for glacier line. People make great dynamic anchors and you have the luxury of using a terrifically static line to build haul system or to prussic up without losing efficiency of stretching a dynamic line or the rope sawing through the lip. Which brings another issue to light! The more static the line the more resistance it has to abrasion because it’s not sawing itself on a sharp edge. http://www.bluewaterropes.com/home/productsinfo.asp?Channel=Recreation&Group=&GroupKey=&Category=Canyoneering%20Ropes&CategoryKey=&ProdKey=37 Quote
layton Posted January 31, 2011 Author Posted January 31, 2011 One suggestion I'sd like to throw in for consideration is Blue Waters Canyon Pro, STRONG and light but not cheap! It has a dual sheath that likes to slip the first few rappels and once the sheath is worn in its fine. Did I mention its light? Oh and it has a firm hand so its not a tangled mess to handle and the negligible elongation so it slides glassy smooth over rock, so if it gets stuck you can really reef on it and it may just pop out! I’ve also hear of people using it for glacier line. People make great dynamic anchors and you have the luxury of using a terrifically static line to build haul system or to prussic up without losing efficiency of stretching a dynamic line or the rope sawing through the lip. Which brings another issue to light! The more static the line the more resistance it has to abrasion because it’s not sawing itself on a sharp edge. http://www.bluewaterropes.com/home/productsinfo.asp?Channel=Recreation&Group=&GroupKey=&Category=Canyoneering%20Ropes&CategoryKey=&ProdKey=37 42g/meter 8.0 isn't light, and why not just use a regular 8mill lead line? Thanks...but no thanks Quote
crackers Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) Layton, you know I'm a sterling fanboy. But that said, at least consider 6mm Power Cord which has a Technora cord so it's good at bending and it's good with heat and it's as strong as your love for the lists of gear in your closet. Honestly though, I just use plain old 6mm Accessory Cord which is currently in somebody else's hands. I use it as pull cord, and it seems to be pretty dang durable. I'm very curious about the Esprit thing though and I'm gonna have to find out more...anybody have a link to any documentation by chance? Edited January 31, 2011 by crackers Quote
genepires Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) If I am understanding it right, when you have a pull cord, the function of the cord is to pull the rappel rope down and one does not place both the thick rope and the pull cord in the rappel device. So why is there such concern over strength of the pull cord? (other than the obvious strength needs for pulling but that would be like 200-400 pounds) Why wouldn't a cord rated to 600 pounds work? maybe you guys are talking about a actual thin rap rope? Edited January 31, 2011 by genepires Quote
robpatterson5 Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) I'm with genepires, 2mm anybody? Edited January 31, 2011 by robpatterson5 Quote
pcg Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) maybe you guys are talking about a actual thin rap rope? Original post... ... Last I used was a 6mm 60mm perlon rap line (can you say sketchy?) ... what cool fancy cords are out there for use as a super skinny tag line to rappel from... Edited January 31, 2011 by pcg Quote
OlympicMtnBoy Posted January 31, 2011 Posted January 31, 2011 If you're purely going for pull cord and aren't worried about tangles, check out Amsteel too, 100% dyneema braided line. I think Matt Maddaloni even jugged on some 4mm or something silly, but it seems like an option for super light yet super strong skinny pull line. Gotta be a pain for handling though. Quote
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