tvashtarkatena Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Reading a good book by that title now. As my more historically savvy friend Ivan knows; Same Ole' Shit, Different Day. Still, it's surprising to see how far back the roots of any given cultural phenomenon go, and how tenaciously even the most egregious bullshit tends to stick around. Helpful when asking the question "Where did all these crazy thumpin mfkrs come from all of a sudden?" Quote
ivan Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 i blame calvin and cromwell for palin, though daffy duck apperas to have some slight effect as well Quote
Off_White Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 So, when listening to the SOTU speech (sorry Larry), did you too experience the brief hopeless wish that just once we didn't have a president who felt compelled to pray for America? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 I'm just glad the Constitution doesn't include God. It damn near had God written all over it, but for the diligent efforts of a handful of principled Freethinkers. Had it been written twenty years later, during a particularly religious reactionary period, it probably would have mandated an official state religion. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 But hey, religion's always been big bidness, and we are the nation of bidness, if nothing else. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 The popular term for deists and freethinkers in 1776? "Infidel". Quote
prole Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 Unfortunately, the deification of the founders isn't confined to the religious wackos... Quote
ivan Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 The popular term for deists and freethinkers in 1776? "Infidel". how does this explain thomas paine's popularity at the time? or do you contend that his atheism was not well know? Quote
rob Posted January 27, 2011 Posted January 27, 2011 the common tea-bagger claim that America was founded on Christianity ranks right up there among the most ignorant of all misconceptions. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 27, 2011 Author Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) Paine was well known and, for the time, well read. His book The Age of Reason sold 25,000 copies and had 18 printings. He was not an atheist, but a deist - roughly corresponding to nature-as-God - he strongly believed that the idea that God's ways were 'mysterious and unknowable' was crap - an idea designed to concentrate power to a few. He believed in transparent morality - no mystery required. As the century drew to a close, Paine was reviled by the colonial religious establishment and many of his countrymen and abandoned by many of his closest friends as a wave of fundamentalism swept the over the nation. Jefferson, notably, stuck by him. Franklin, pretty much an out and out atheist, warned him not to poke Christianity in the eye. In the end, Paine's funeral was attended by fewer than a dozen people. It wasn't until the mid 1800s that historians began to resurrect the great man and revolutionary that was Thomas Paine. Prior to that, the influence of Paine's books was falsely minimized. Even today, when you here evangelical zombies channel their fantasy versions of the founding fathers and their mythical guiding faith, you somehow never hear Paine's name mentioned. Edited January 27, 2011 by tvashtarkatena Quote
ivan Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 i'd understood he'd become neglected in his lifetime - didn't he go to france or something to enjoy himself another revolution? haiti? Quote
JayB Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/robert_ingersoll/ Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted January 28, 2011 Author Posted January 28, 2011 i'd understood he'd become neglected in his lifetime - didn't he go to france or something to enjoy himself another revolution? haiti? After independence, Paine temporarily returned to England, wrote The Rights of Man in support of the French Revolutionary ideals, and was indicted for treason. He escaped to France in 1792, wrote The Age of Reason, but was imprisoned by the Robes Pierre government for protesting the execution of Louis XVI. The new American government did fuck all to get him out until James Monroe finally got it the act and secured Paine's release after 10 months in the slammer. Ever civil and generous, even in poverty, and ever the shit stirrer where shit needed to be stirred, Paine was truly one of the greatest Americans. He was, without a doubt, the founding father of liberal thought in this country. Quote
ivan Posted January 28, 2011 Posted January 28, 2011 no shortage of dead heroes in this here world i miss bill hicks Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.