Just a reminder

[JayB]

Government budget shortfall isn't the cause of our economic woes but merely it consequence. Most evidence suggest that cutting necessary spending and economic stimuli will make the crisis significantly worse. The former darling of free markets zealots, Ireland, reminds us daily of these facts.

 

Greece went under because of debts that originated in the public sector that exceeded their capacity to repay them under any terms, so people stopped loaning them money.

 

Ireland went under because the retards running the show there turned private sector debts that originated in Irish banks and transferred the liabilities for them to the public sector. Since these debts exceed Ireland's capacity to repay them under any terms, people stopped loaning them money.

 

Vastly different paths to the same destination - insolvency. The rest of the PIIGS will end up in the same place. Creditors will have to take massive haircuts (and the sooner, the better), and the four grandparents who are relying on their one-grandchild to fund their collective 120-years worth of inflation-indexed pension payouts and health-care will have to work longer and make do with less once they're done working.

 

 

[JayB]

Ireland's problems derive almost entirely from their president's idiotic promise to back-stop the banks by guaranteeing all their loans. Should have just let 'em swing in the wind. Hard to do, politically, but it's not like the government are exactly being hailed as heros for taking the easy route. When you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't, you might as well be damned for taking the least ruinous path available to you.

 

Exacty.

 

Should have scrolled down a few more posts before posting.

 

Debts that can't be repaid, won't. The sooner someone sends that message to creditors and bondholders, the better.

 

Actually - I think that some of them are belatedly getting the message, which is why the yield-spreads are spiking in Portugal, Spain, etc, CDS premiums are going through the roof for sovereign debt issued by the same countries, etc, etc, etc.

 

 

 

[prole]

Ireland went under because the retards running the show there turned private sector debts that originated in Irish banks and transferred the liabilities for them to the public sector.

 

Funny how that happens when FIRE captures a large enough portion of state power...

 

Creditors will have to take massive haircuts...

 

See above.

[JayB]

Ireland went under because the retards running the show there turned private sector debts that originated in Irish banks and transferred the liabilities for them to the public sector.

 

Funny how that happens when FIRE captures a large enough portion of state power...

 

Creditors will have to take massive haircuts...

 

See above.

 

IIRC the financial sector was at least as large relative to GDP in Iceland, if not significantly larger, and the Icleandic government, by way of the voters - wisely and correctly told the retards that extended them way too much credit that they weren't going to repay debts that they could never hope to repay under any circumstances.

 

 

[Fairweather]

How can scumbags like Fairweather live everyday facing their own stupidity and mean disposition? I mean, it's a legitimate question: just imagine what it'd be like to go about rejoicing at lives being destroyed for lack of a job as it is currently happening to millions of Americans. Would you actually consider tying in with the dude? honestly?

 

Rejoicing? Where the hell did you get that? You're the guy who seems to have a hard time playing with others nowadays.

BTW: when was the last time you tied in--period?

[prole]

Christmas come early, Fairweather?

 

2 million lose jobless benefits as holidays arrive

By TOM BREEN, Associated Press Tom Breen, Associated Press 2 hrs 40 mins ago

 

Extended unemployment benefits for nearly 2 million Americans begin to run out Wednesday, cutting off a steady stream of income and guaranteeing a dismal holiday season for people already struggling with bills they cannot pay.

 

Unless Congress changes its mind, benefits that had been extended up to 99 weeks will end this month.

 

That means Christmas is out of the question for Wayne Pittman, 46, of Lawrenceville, Ga., and his wife and 9-year-old son. The carpenter was working up to 80 hours a week at the beginning of the decade, but saw that gradually drop to 15 hours before it dried up completely. His last $297 check will go to necessities, not presents.

 

"I have a little boy, and that's kind of hard to explain to him," Pittman said.

 

The average weekly unemployment benefit in the U.S. is $302.90, though it varies widely depending on how states calculate the payment. Because of supplemental state programs and other factors, it's hard to know for sure who will lose their benefits at any given time. But the Labor Department estimates that, without a Congress-approved extension, about 2 million people will be cut off by Christmas.

 

Congressional opponents of extending the benefits beyond this month say fiscal responsibility should come first. Republicans in the House and Senate, along with a handful of conservative Democrats, say they're open to extending benefits, but not if it means adding to the $13.8 trillion national debt.

 

Even if Congress does lengthen benefits, cash assistance is at best a stopgap measure, said Carol Hardison, executive director of Crisis Assistance Ministry in Charlotte, N.C., which has seen 20,000 new clients since the Great Recession started in December 2007.

 

"We're going to have to have a new conversation with the people who are still suffering, about the potentially drastic changes they're going to have to make to stay out of the homeless shelter," she said.

 

Forget Christmas presents. What the so-called "99ers" want most of all is what remains elusive in the worst economy in generations: a job.

 

"I am not searching for a job, I am begging for one," said Felicia Robbins, 30, as she prepared to move out of a homeless shelter in Pensacola, Fla., where she and her five children have been living. She is using the last of her cash reserves, about $500, to move into a small, unfurnished rental home.

 

Robbins lost her job as a juvenile justice worker in 2009 and her last $235 unemployment check will arrive Dec. 13. Her 10-year-old car isn't running, and she walks each day to the local unemployment office to look for work.

 

Jeanne Reinman, 61, of Greenville, S.C., still has her house, but even that comes with a downside.

 

After losing her computer design job a year and a half ago, Reinman scraped by with her savings and a weekly $351 unemployment check. When her nest egg vanished in July, she started using her unemployment to pay off her mortgage and stopped paying her credit card bills. She recently informed a creditor she couldn't make payments on a loan because her benefits were ending.

 

"I'm more concerned about trying to hang onto my house than paying you," she told the creditor.

 

Ninety-nine weeks may seem like a long time to find a job. But even as the economy grows, jobs that vanished in the Great Recession have not returned. The private sector added about 159,000 jobs in October — half as many as needed to reduce the unemployment rate of 9.6 percent, which the Federal Reserve expects will hover around 9 percent for all of next year.

 

"I apply for at least two jobs a day," said Silvia Lewis, of Nashville, Tenn., who's also drained her 401(k) and most of her other savings. "The constant thing that I hear, and a lot of my friends are in the same boat, is that you're overqualified."

 

JoAnn Sampson of Charlotte hears the same thing. A former cart driver at U.S. Airways, she and her husband are both facing the end of unemployment benefits, and she can't get so much as an entry-level job.

 

"When you try to apply for retail or fast food, they say 'You're overqualified,' they say 'We don't pay that much money,' they say, 'You don't want this job,'" she said.

 

Sampson counts her blessings: At least her two children, a teenager and a college student, are too old to expect much from Christmas this year.

 

Shawn Slonsky's three children aren't expecting much either. The 44-year-old union electrician in northeast Ohio won't be able to afford presents or even a Christmas tree.

 

His sons and daughter haven't bothered to send him holiday wish lists with the latest gizmos and gadgets.

 

Things used to be different. Before work dried up, Slonsky earned about $100,000 a year and he and his wife lived in a three-bedroom house where deer meandered through the backyard. For Christmas, he bought his aspiring doctor daughter medical books, a guitar, a unicycle.

 

Then he and his wife lost their jobs. Their house went into foreclosure and they had to move in with his 73-year-old father.

 

Now, Slonsky is dreading the holidays as he tries to stretch his last unemployment check to cover child support, gas, groceries and utilities.

 

"You don't even get in the frame of mind for Christmas when things are bad," he said. "It's hard to be in a jovial mood all the time when you've got this storm cloud hanging over your head."

[Fairweather]

So, how long do you think these benefits should be extended?

[prole]

These jobs are never coming back. The benefits will need to be extended indefinitely, works programs instituted to put people to work, re-colonize Africa, start a war with China, or GrannyBurgers. What sounds good to you?

[Fairweather]

These jobs are never coming back. The benefits will need to be extended indefinitely, works programs instituted to put people to work, re-colonize Africa, start a war with China, or GrannyBurgers. What sounds good to you?

 

OMG, it's true. You really are a moron.

[prole]

Lay it on us. What's next?

[Fairweather]

Is it safe to assume you're a recipient of the aforementioned "indefinite" benefits?

[prole]

Now, now, never answer a question with a question...

[prole]

What are we going to do with all these damned people?

[prole]

Hmmm, no answer. Man, just thinking about governing's hard, isn't it?

[prole]

Well, I guess I can wait. Maybe you can call into a talk show tomorrow and ask the host or maybe google around to one of Jay's Addams Family think tanks and they can tell you what to say.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

What are we going to do with all these damned people?

 

Tell them they can whine endlessly on the bullshit forum of a climbing website?

[Fairweather]

I did it! Prole with the quadruple-obessssevive post. I knew if was patient--wait, wait, wait--just like fishin' for really a really dumb Bass. BAM! Only j_b and TTK have received this dubious honor is years past. Congrats to Prole! Obsessive/compulsive poster of the month.

 

Here it is again. Check it out:

 

[prole]

Christmas came early for you too, didn't it? Savor that midterm victory over some cigars and single-malt? 2,000,000 unemployed off "the dole", that ought to save some money. Maybe even pay for another tax cut...dare to dream...

[prole]

Yes, the Party of No (Fucking Idea) is really showing America how it puts its pants on in the morning!

[Fairweather]

Fuck off, lazy dipshit.

[prole]

Thank God I'm not unemployed! Come 2013, Sarah Palin's going to be drafting unemployeds for the Great Conflagation versus the Infidels!

[prole]

Till then, they'll be in the Burnin' Books for Jesus Brigades!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Christmas came early for you too, didn't it?

 

What victory? Damn you ARE a dip shit. Try to pay attention.

[billcoe]

Lay it on us. What's next?

 

Good question (4 times LOL). Isn't next Feb crunch time in Eurozone land? So we'll see, and I don't think it's gonna be good given the situation in this country of borrowing excessively, spending excessively, and letting our current accounts go into the toilet. Hey, maybe we can print even more money? Historically that always leads to some fun and games. Let's call it Quantitative easing so that at least we look smart.

 

Anyone who hasn't stocked up on food, water and all the things you need should seriously consider it now before the shit hits the fan. Tip, Mountain House #10 tins have a shelf life of over 25 years and at various times are available in packages at Costco.

 

 

Oh, btw, in Germany right now, you cannot get a safe deposit box, they are all rented. Not a one to be had as folks rush to put gold and silver in them. They remember the last hyperinflation, and it didn't make them happy.

Edited December 1, 2010 by billcoe

[j_b]

Greece went under because of debts that originated in the public sector that exceeded their capacity to repay them under any terms, so people stopped loaning them money. Ireland went under because the retards running the show there turned private sector debts that originated in Irish banks and transferred the liabilities for them to the public sector. Since these debts exceed Ireland's capacity to repay them under any terms, people stopped loaning them money.

 

Jay isn’t actually answering the post of mine he cited. He is answering the next post I wrote in which I briefly compare neoliberal propaganda regarding Greece versus Ireland and their tries to draw a parallel with our situation to target everything public, continue their war against the commons and dismiss all attempts at controlling a financial sector gone rogue.

 

Jay isn’t directly answering my comment because what I said cannot be denied. Government budget shortfall that regressives wring their hands in despair about is almost all due to speculation in the financial sector, the market crash that ensued, its effect on the real economy and resulting decreasing capacity to raise revenue (not entirely new thanks to their long-term war against government). Regressives only offer solutions meant to decrease public spending as if there were a relation between the medicine they suggest and our economic health but they have shown no such relation and they haven’t shown any benefit for OUR economy; on the contrary, cutting spending like wages, unemployment benefits, job programs, etc will surely deepen the crisis as shown by Ireland and others.

 

Vastly different paths to the same destination - insolvency.

 

Perhaps, but not for the reason you mentioned, Greece’s debt arose because of a culture of systemic corruption and failure to raise revenue (remember: retirees paid more taxes than attorneys and doctors, and public funds were hijacked for private profit). Public spending is bound to translate into public debt when private interests capture the revenue stream irrespective of the need for reform. Insolvency follows when financial speculators smell blood and cause the interest on the debt to balloon to unsustainable levels.