Dino Rossi

[tvashtarkatena]

i would say, more accurately, that the majority of people who don't vote are lazy fucks.

 

and you'd likely be wrong. The demographics that vote the least is disenfranchised youth. Youth is the demographics most consistently on the left.

 

Disenfranchised youth? More likely youth doing what youth does... trying to get wasted, laid, or both.

[j_b]

just what I said: who needs baggers with Democrats like you. "GO GET A JOB, LAZY FUCK"

 

is that your best Archie Bunker imitation?

Edited November 1, 2010 by j_b

[tvashtarkatena]

Election demographics are one of the most studied, well understood subjects in history...for obvious reasons.

 

Anyone who believes that the importance of swing voters is a 'myth, perpetrated by corporate media' is blowing smoke up their own ass.

 

But, after all, that's precisely what keeps the progressive movement moving...and utterly ineffective.

 

Being 'disenfranchized'...ie, ineffectual and stupid, is a basic, definitional prerequisite for considering oneself a progressive.

 

But, as i said, it's not about making any actual change happen, it's about feeling good.

 

Good luck with that.

[j_b]

The change you are making happen is going the wrong way.

[tvashtarkatena]

just what I said: who needs baggers with Democrats like you. "GO GET A JOB, LAZY FUCK"

 

is that your best Archie Bunker imitation?

 

Nope. Bunker carped about a group he knew nothing about.

 

I've worked extensively with progressives in ways a do-nothing peanut gallery member such as yourself can only dream about. My opinions come hard earned from experience.

 

It makes sense. The progressive movement attracts carpers. It filters for them. It strokes their egos. One might argue that's pretty much all it does.

 

And you, my friend, are it's perfect poster child.

Edited November 1, 2010 by tvashtarkatena

[j_b]

Anyone who believes that the importance of swing voters is a 'myth, perpetrated by corporate media' is blowing smoke up their own ass.

 

I said "MIDDLE swing vote", not 'swing vote'. Pay attention.

 

There are more people on Obama's left than on the "middle" between 2 corporate parties.

[Jim]

I'd agree that the progressive movement hasn't "moved" things too far, but at least they haven't been co-opted into the plutocracy that masquerades as a two party system.

 

Many people don't vote because they don't see too much difference between the two parties. One wants to rape and pillage, the other has no spine.

 

Progress from the inside? Yea, the evidence to date compares to trying to wear down Gibraltar by having a hummingbird sharpen its beak against it once a day.

Edited November 1, 2010 by Jim

[rob]

I heard Rossi got that scar on his cheek in a knife fight.

[Jim]

I heard Rossi got that scar on his cheek in a knife fight.

 

...while cleaning the floors of the Space Needle while putting himself thru college? That's amazing.

[G-spotter]

I heard Rossi got that scar on his cheek in a knife cock fight.

[tvashtarkatena]

I'd agree that the progressive movement hasn't "moved" things too far, but at least they haven't been co-opted into the plutocracy that masquerades as a two party system.

 

Many people don't vote because they don't see too much difference between the two parties. One wants to rape and pillage, the other has no spine.

 

Progress from the inside? Yea, the evidence to date compares to trying to wear down Gibraltar by having a hummingbird sharpen its beak against it once a day.

 

Yeah, there's been no social progressive in our system in the last 50 years.

 

You might ask women, gays, and minorities about how much they'd like to return to those good ole' days.

 

Did the 'progressive movement' have anything meaningful to do with any of that social progress? Um...not so much.

 

Sure, there's a fascist backlash movement happening. It's Amerika...what else is new?

 

And we still have the Drug War - the most racist policy in decades.

Organizations working within the system have brought us from possible life in prison for pot (former Texas law) to the current raft of decriminalization/legalization initiatives, in addition to a host of other reforms. What has the progressive movement brought us? Hemp Fest.

 

Any excuse for a party.

[j_b]

Many people don't vote because they don't see too much difference between the two parties. One wants to rape and pillage, the other has no spine.

 

There is a good reason why voter suppression has been been critical to GOP tactics for so long (they can control policy with ~25% of the potential vote), and why they went after ACORN that registered millions (and they won by destroying it). What did Democrats do on that one, perhaps TVash will remind us of the ACORN defunding bill many of them voted for.

[tvashtarkatena]

When the progressive movement makes 1/100th the splash that their moron counterparts in the Teabagger movement has in 1/10th the time, wake me up and let me know.

 

To me, the definition of doing the same thing over and over again with no effect is idiocy.

[j_b]

You might ask women, gays, and minorities about how much they'd like to return to those good ole' days.

 

Did the 'progressive movement' have anything meaningful to do with any of that social progress? Um...not so much.

 

your ignorance is astounding. Without progressive social movements forcing establishment politicians to act nothing would have changed.

[Jim]

By the same token what have the insider-centrist Dems brought us? Hmmm, two wars that the were too chicken shit to vote against, an activist right wing SC, a go-along Congress for budget-busters such as the Medicare drug law, and endless entertainment on getting steam rolled by the right wing. Gotta hand it to them, they have proven effictive in defeating right-of-center party that calls itself the democrats.

[j_b]

When the progressive movement makes 1/100th the splash that their moron counterparts in the Teabagger movement has in 1/10th the time, wake me up and let me know.

 

could it have to do with the corporate media that you keep defending? and the Democratic Party that refuses to mobilize and amplify social movements?

Edited November 1, 2010 by j_b

[j_b]

To me, the definition of doing the same thing over and over again with no effect is idiocy.

 

by opposition to doing more or less the same as Bush and calling it progress?

[tvashtarkatena]

Many people don't vote because they don't see too much difference between the two parties. One wants to rape and pillage, the other has no spine.

 

There is a good reason why voter suppression has been been critical to GOP tactics for so long (they can control policy with ~25% of the potential vote), and why they went after ACORN that registered millions (and they won by destroying it). What did Democrats do on that one, perhaps TVash will remind us of the ACORN defunding bill many of them voted for.

 

ACORN registers millions, and you think their attackers won? Um...OK.

 

With progressives, there's one excuse after the next about the failure of their own movement. Those Big, Bad Republicans and their vote suppression, etc.

 

Well, the Rfucks do practice racial vote suppression - they hate blacks and blacks hate 'em back - so the solution is to out vote 'em and negate the effect (while exposing and challenging their tactics in court, of course).

 

What's the progressive solution?

 

Vote Nader!

[j_b]

By the same token what have the insider-centrist Dems brought us? Hmmm, two wars that the were too chicken shit to vote against, an activist right wing SC, a go-along Congress for budget-busters such as the Medicare drug law, and endless entertainment on getting steam rolled by the right wing. Gotta hand it to them, they have proven effictive in defeating right-of-center party that calls itself the democrats.

 

Nader is no fool. He has seen Democrats pulling that shit for 30+ years. What do you want him to say? let's vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

[tvashtarkatena]

My observation is that progressive just don't like to do any real, effective work because its simply not sexy enough. Makes sense...they're not in it for the results...they're in it to feel good about themselves - and better than the rest of us. They need to be on the 'outside' to do that. They actually can't be successful...that would put them on the 'inside'.

 

Guess every society has to have its useless movements.

 

 

[Jim]

Well, the Rfucks do practice racial vote suppression - they hate blacks and blacks hate 'em back - so the solution is to out vote 'em and negate the effect (while exposing and challenging their tactics in court, of course).

 

And the question is - What have the Dems done lately? A lot of hand wringing and not much else for minorities, women, gays, and the middle class. What is to be proud of lately?

[tvashtarkatena]

By the same token what have the insider-centrist Dems brought us? Hmmm, two wars that the were too chicken shit to vote against, an activist right wing SC, a go-along Congress for budget-busters such as the Medicare drug law, and endless entertainment on getting steam rolled by the right wing. Gotta hand it to them, they have proven effictive in defeating right-of-center party that calls itself the democrats.

 

Nader is no fool. He has seen Democrats pulling that shit for 30+ years. What do you want him to say? let's vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

 

Nader and Rossi have about the same level of integrity.

 

No, wait, I stand corrected...Rossi actually pays his workers.

[j_b]

There is a good reason why voter suppression has been been critical to GOP tactics for so long (they can control policy with ~25% of the potential vote), and why they went after ACORN that registered millions (and they won by destroying it). What did Democrats do on that one, perhaps TVash will remind us of the ACORN defunding bill many of them voted for.

ACORN registers millions, and you think their attackers won? Um...OK.

 

you don't know that ACORN folded, i.e. the thugs destroyed the most effective tool we had, with the help of Democrats in congress?

[j_b]

Nader is no fool. He has seen Democrats pulling that shit for 30+ years. What do you want him to say? let's vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

 

Nader and Rossi have about the same level of integrity.

 

No, wait, I stand corrected...Rossi actually pays his workers.

 

Smears is all you have. Shame on you.

[Jim]

By the same token what have the insider-centrist Dems brought us? Hmmm, two wars that the were too chicken shit to vote against, an activist right wing SC, a go-along Congress for budget-busters such as the Medicare drug law, and endless entertainment on getting steam rolled by the right wing. Gotta hand it to them, they have proven effictive in defeating right-of-center party that calls itself the democrats.

 

Nader is no fool. He has seen Democrats pulling that shit for 30+ years. What do you want him to say? let's vote for the lesser of 2 evils?

 

I'm not disagreeing with you. The state of politics sucks with little evidence of either party trying to tackle the hard issues. Ok, ok. We know the Republicans are worse but the Dems have just been enablers. Third party candidates have an uphill battle given all the structural barriers. And great - work to get in supposedly left of center democrats and what happens - not much in the past 20 years.