marc_leclerc Posted June 15, 2010 Share Posted June 15, 2010 Some guy fell off the bottom of Flight of the Challenger in Squamish. And for those in the know, that pin down low that protects the 5.11 move just before the bomber cam ripped. The dude decked but was okay... but now peple are talking about placing a bolt. What do you guys think? I think its a retarded idea. FOTC is a legendary gear lead and has a bit of bold 5.11 climbing to start. Bolting this would ruin one of the most classic 5.12+ routes in Squamish, diminishing it from an incredible and sometimes bold test peice for aspiring hard trad climbers to something any one with some draws and blue TCU's can hangdog... IMO. Also, you can place a small TCU 8 inches below where the bolt would go. The move isn't that hard... on my first lead attmept I skipped the old pin altogether and bouldered past the move anyways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 how does a bolt change anything? the pin was fixed gear, too, so the bolt wouldn't impact the boldness of the climb since either way you'd be clipping in situ gear. that said, the pin may have become unnecessary with the advent of modern cams, in which case it may not need to be replaced by a bolt or by a new piton. once upon a time the really small and really large cams currently available didn't exist, hence the use of fixed pins and bolts in some instances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Why not replace the pin with another pin if a bolt is so controversial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 because that one would eventually pull, get replaced, etc. and then you'd have a big ol' scar...if there is available gear do not place another pin, if not, put a bolt in...pins are flat fuckin' stupid in this day and age for craggin'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Mark, Any chance the little TCU your'e talking about could be hit with a moderate factor fall? I'm always wary of little cams for the first or second piece without much rope in play to reduce the forces. If the small cam is good, then what RUMR said... if not sounds like a single bolt might be order. IMHO not the I climb 5.12 trad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadman Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 If there's no gear, I'd rather see a bolt than another pin. If there is gear that works, no bolt should be necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted June 16, 2010 Author Share Posted June 16, 2010 The cam could hold... also a bolt is much less bold... the pin was sketch and you didnt want to fall. There is also a bolt 3 feet to the side that can be clipped with a sling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenwesh Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 if it's protecting a 5.11 move on a 5.12+ climb I think it's okay to have semi shit gear. if you really want to climb it why not just TR it? is it hard to reach from neighboring route anchors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keenwesh Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 the climb in question. looks like you can really sew it up above that lower part... (like that guy did) http://www.mountainproject.com/v/international/north_america/canada/106241546 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenderfour Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 Let's not confuse "Bold" with "stupid". over the years, a bolt has less impact on the rock than subsequent pin placements and is substantially less safe. For a 5.13 climber to argue that a manky pin made the climb more exciting is kind of silly. If that were the prevailing attitude, I would recommend we strip all the bolts off any climb under 5.7, because I would be willing to solo them. F*ck everyone else. The pins will eventually loosen and need to be replaced, scarring the rock every time. One well placed stainless bolt will last longer than any of us will be climbing. If it's a 5-piece, it can be replaced without drilling a new hole 40 years form now when it finally corrodes. FYI - The linked Mountain Project page says the pin was replaced in 2009. It has already pulled out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 i already said that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mountainsloth Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 in response to the video: i would have fallen too if I had some stupid bra spraying shit at me every 5 seconds... how annoying. but i guess that motivates some people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 i already said that... What, did you say something? Rudy? I can't hear you? Doesn't a big ol' scar equal a better cam placement? Worked on Serenity Crack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted June 16, 2010 Share Posted June 16, 2010 whatever...everyone just solos past those ridiculous scars and THEN places gear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamsbud Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 QUOTE,"...for those in the know, that pin down low that protects the 5.11 move just before the bomber cam ripped." ???? wtf- bomber cams rip?!?!?! bold or stupid?? hmmmm spray'prentice Registered: 06/30/03 Posts: 2978 TRs: 13 Photos: 19 QUOTE, "Let's not confuse "Bold" with "stupid". over the years, a bolt has less impact on the rock than subsequent pin placements and is substantially less safe. For a 5.13 climber to argue that a manky pin made the climb more exciting is kind of silly." Thanks for that comment! It's about time someone said this. Elitist attitudes are like a kid in high-school who puts down others to make themselves feel better than everyone else. When did the high school attitude take over climbing?!?! Some people would argue that seat-belts don't save lives either..... I'd rather have a long and injury free climbing career, after all you're not necessarily going to die if you deck or ledge. Modern medicine has GREAT ways of keeping you alive for another 15-20 years in a wheelchair or a hospital bed even if you're a vegetable!! We all know that elite climbers are "Heroes" to the rest of us but come on use a little common sense! How exciting does it feel to get your carcass dragged off the wall by search and rescue after you the "elite" break your back? Search and rescue are the "elite" because they are the professionals who use their safety equipment to go places because we the climbers are so often "stupid". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprocket Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Would agree with most of what has been said so far. Bolt instead of pin if necessary. If the cam placement is truly reasonable and can be placed from the position there the bolt is probably not needed especially given that this section is substantially (2-4 letter grades) easier than the rest of the climb. I understand the opinion above especially if it were a moderate route that would see a lot less traffic because potential serious injury. I'll never climb at that level so my opinion probably not too relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 Adamsbud.... I meant the pin ripped. I was using the bomber cam as a reference point for the location of the pin. I just climbed this a few more times over the last couple months and the 0# TCU where the bolt would potentially have gone is textbook perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_leclerc Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 Oh... and background story. The dude who decked was Will Stanhope... i guess someone else's gear was in the route and he didn't clip it for some reason.. and from what he told me it sounds like he was goofing off a bit skipping holds and stuff as he was 'just warming up'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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