rehash of the pnw '4 season' tent

[Water]

Okay I've the threads on this topic but still would like to hear some more since it is a big purchase. Right now I have a tarptent for summer use so I'd like something for winter. I imagine I'd get more use out of a tent than a bivy since I rarely do things solo.

 

I would like something towards the lightweight side of the spectrum (3-5lbs, not the 7-9lbs VE25/Trango 2). Primarily for weekend use (no expedition stuff). I see a lot of bibler/BD tents in trip reports here, seems mostly FirstLight and/or I-tent/Eldorado. What are people's take on the lack of vestibule? Works fine with a canister stove and some venting? Boots near the door just deal with a bit of extra melt?

And then the take on firstlight vs i-tent as far as water resistance? Anyone been dissatisfied with the firstlight here in the PNW specifically, wishing for an i-tent--why/what were conditions that lead to that thought?

 

Any other suggestions (brand wise) for the weight, (exped, hilleberg?)

 

Thanks much

 

[MJaso]

I don't see alot of people posting about the Nemo Tenshi, but it kicks ass. (4.2 lbs striped down) Check it out on the website. I've nothing to say except good things about mine.

[Water]

is the stripped down aspect meaning no vestibule or condensation curtain, cause that is pretty solid, and I like being able to opt based on conditions. is yours made of eVent or the new stuff? whats the deal with dropping eVent in tents--the fire issue? i wonder how bad it was/is compared to 'fire retardant' materials (gasoline vs hunk of wood?)

[Jon H]

Yup, eVent was discontinued in tents (by law) due to its abysmal fire retardancy. It goes up faster than a bucket of gasoline.

 

Regarding the Tenshi, I would have bought it years ago if it was just a little longer. It looks absolutely fantastic in every respect, except 1. Both my partner and I are about 6'2" and the Tenshi is about 6' long. That means a soaked sleeping bag at the head and feet from condensation as the sleeping bag is smushed up against the walls, not to mention a lack of comfort and inability to sprawl. Just something to think about if you're a tall dude. If they had a version that was 6'6" (or ideally 7') I would buy it in a hearbeat.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2010 by Jon H

[letsroll]

When I went through looking for a 4 season tent they all seem short. I am 6'5" and basically all tents exept for the tents that would make it no further than the parking lot are not long enough. I second the thought a version that was 7' long would be nice.

[BigSky]

You can still get a Rab Summit Superlite in Exchange-Lite eVent (if you don't mind a 27 in. height; I think it's like 87 in. long). They make the Summit Mountain now too, which has a taller peak height; don't know how they got away with that one. There's always the Integral MK1 XL, which with the light floor option comes in pretty darn light.

For a double wall under 5 lbs.: Hilleberg Nallo 2 gets you there and it is a very nice tent. I had it out last winter some and was very impressed. I've also used the Big Agnes String Ridge 2, and was very pleasantly surprised with its 4-season ability; mine weighs 5lbs. 4oz all up (body, fly, poles, 10 stakes, a full set of guylines). If I had to pick one of the two I'd probably take the Hille.

An acquaintance of mine also rocks the Tenshi and loves it.

[Water]

thanks for the advise on the rab summit mountain/superlite. The summit mountain is 87.5" X 47.2" X 39.3" and 4.4lbs. hmm

guess I'll be looking between tenshi and the summit mountain.

might just order them both and do a side-by-side

 

they get away with making those by calling them bivys, tents must be fireproof as they are under some rule as type of 'shelter' where a bivy is not.

[mountainmandoug]

I don't camp in tents much, but I hang out with people who do so I'll pass on some comments that I've heard.

 

Those BD Epic fabric tents don't get all that good of a report for the PNW. One friend has told me that they have more condensation than the old Bibler fabric, and they do have somewhat of a reputation for leaking in prolonged rain. I met some guys who were bailing off the Ptarmigan Traverse after four days of rain and they said that there Epic tent had let them down.

 

The old-school Bibler tents with that Toddtex fabric have a very good reputation, many people say they are better than any double-wall tent, although I've never talked to someone who compared them to a double-wall tent of similar cost i.e. Hillberg.

 

I believe Integral Designs up in Canada makes some single-wall tents that have longer floors, for you tall folks. Check out there website for specs.

 

Finally, two other tents to mention.

 

Stephenson's Warmlite is a small company that makes some fantastically light but strong tents. Not many people use them but I have hears some good reports. I've also heard that they can have some condensation issues if it's not windy. They are darn light thought.

 

The Terra Nova Voyager Superlite is a 3.5lb double-wall four-season tent with a vesebule. I recall years ago reading a review of earlier models claiming it was the best high-wind tent on the market. It is certainly intriguing.

 

Good luck

[rbw1966]

I dont see any mention of the Mountain Hardwear EV2.

 

Pros to the EV2: vents really well. Perhaps too well but that depends on your tastes. You can really button it down if you want to. Length is awesome (I am 6'3"). Sets up and breaks down really fast.

 

Cons: narrow and cramped for two adults; a little heavy (5lbs 3oz); the clips that connect the poles can come undone in heavy winds if you dont stake and guy it out really well. I was lazy last time I used it and didn't stake out the guy lines very well and when the wind and snow arrived I kept having to snake an arm out the vents to re-connect the clips to the poles. I dont like the door set-up. One zipper goes horizontally along the bottom and the other arcs down the side to meet with the bottom slider.

 

Overall I like the Bibler design better--its nice to set up the poles while inside the tent. I got a great deal on the EV2 so thats what I went with.

[Le Piston]

Never used the MH EV2, but it looks like a nice tent. Like MountainmanDoug, I am a big fan of single wall Toddtex tents. My main climbing partner has a Bibler and I have an older Sierra Designs tent that I still use. Both are bomber, easy to set up, and relatively light. I tend to use the vestibule only in winter. I also have the BD Firstlight and love it...but tend to use it when the weather forecast is solid. I have only had condensation issues once on a sandy riverside and once at O degrees F. It has seen me through rain and snow (not a deluge) just fine and is super light and easy to set up. Just not a lot of room. Otherwise it is my absolute favorite tent. There are lots of nice tents out there...just need to match your needs to the features and price range. Good luck!

[BigSky]

I just went and set up the Rab Summit Superlite and Integral Designs MKI XL today to compare them. First of all, both are very solid; you can comfortably lean all of your weight on the frames without much flex. Construction and attention to detail is good on the Rab and great on the ID (no surprise there).

 

In the Superlite my "long" bag touches, but my top bag (hoodless) does not. Part of the reason the bag touches is that the walls are at such a low angle, but it'd still touch a bit I'm sure. I can comfortably sit hunched, but not sitting all the way up in the middle (I am 6'2"). I weighed it (poles, body, stakes, guylines) and it came in at 3lbs 4.5 oz. It has one vent/portal at the foot end.

 

The MKI XL is significantly wider, particularly when guyed out, and much taller. I can easily sit all the way up with room to spare. My bag just barely touches on one end, and not at all diagonally. It has two vents at the top, which are nice, and has a small peaked hood over the door so you can open it a bit at the top without letting moisture in. This would likely offset the lower breathability compared to eVent, but then you're losing heat; definitely a trade off.

 

Neither is a comfortable backpacking tent, which is fine with me, but just to make sure there's no confusion. Both are bomber assault tents, and I'd use either without hesitation. For the lightest trips with carry overs, etc. I'd go Rab. For more than a night or two with two people I'd go MKI XL of the two.

 

Since you are using it as your primary winter shelter, I'd steer away from the Rab (same floor dimensions as the superlite) unless weight is of utmost importance to you, or you have small climbing partners. If you're going in the 4+ lb range anyway, I think you'd be much more comfortable in a Tenshi-like set up.

[Water]

Thanks for the contributions and 2cents everyone. And thank you BigSky for taking a gander and comparing tents, very helpful. A friend of mine has the EV2 and while it felt quite solid to sleep in, the quasi-vestibule didn't make sense to me. Either a real vestibule or save the weight and skip it. I'm 5'8" and For my uses a ~4lb tent would work great, easy enough to carry for myself. If a climbing partner wants to carry a tent that fits a bigger frame then we can split the weight of a bigger tent.

 

The Rab Summit Mountain dimensions seem similar to the superlite:

 

Superlite 87.4 x 47.2 x 27.5 (51-53oz?)

Summit Mnt 87.5 x 47.2 x 39.3 (71oz) 4.4

MK1 XL 86 x 46 x 39 (68-76oz dep. on floor)

 

Or thereabout..seems like the Summit Mnt would work for weight, and I can find it for a good price. Tenshi definitely has something going, wonder if the eVent vs what they use now matters that much, I've been very happy with eVent material overall compared to other waterproof/breathable things. Maybe shouldn't be too hung up on it.

MJaso: what is the pared down weight/vs with vestibule/etc? We talking 4.2lbs vs 5 or 4.2vs 6.5?

 

thanks again, appreciate folks 2cents

[BigSky]

I'd reiterate that while the floor dimensions of the ID and Rab are @ the same, there is much more floor space in the ID due to the angle (and I swear ID sandbags their numbers on a lot of stuff). I assume the mtn. would be more comparable to the MKI.

Sounds like the Rabs might be a good fit for you, so I'm not trying to convince you otherwise, I just wanted to clear that up since the floor specs are about the same.

If you can get a deal on the Mtn that's always a bonus. Then if you don't like it and have to sell it you don't lose much. I'll look forward to your thoughts/review whatever route you go.

[stl]

It has one vent/portal at the foot end.

 

I have the Rab Summit Mtn, and it does not have a vent/portal, it only vents at the door. Before I ordered last Fall I thought it would have a vent in addition to the door. I'm wondering if some of these were made w/ and some w/o a vent. Does any body know anything about this?

[Vickster]

I toughed it out a few years in a bivy, it got old... I'm 6'6" and needed a tent with room. So that might be one requirement that you do not need to consider.

 

Since nobody I climbed with could stand my snoring like a freight train I bought a hilleberg soulo. Room enough for me, room enough for my stuff, and very lite considering how strong it is. I bit the bullet and paid full retail for it, worth every cent.

 

After the Soulo I got a Bibler Fitzroy to use as a 2 man tent. It is a very well built tent, but I need a vestibule. So... I sold the Fitzroy for a profit and scored a Hilleberg Allak for $400 on craigslist. It is roomy, lite as they come, and built like a brick shithouse.

 

Fully guyed out it stood up to winds 80mph sustained with no snow wall. Ya it was a rough night but it held up just fine. Taking it down was kind of rough, had to get 2 people from the hut to help us so it wouldn't blow away. I have heard the Allak can handle even higher winds. Somewhere I read that some dudes were in an allak on Shishapangma in winds 100mph sustained gusts to 120mph. But they had a snow wall. Other tents were shredding but the allak was unphased. The only drawback is the $$$. I hunted on craiglist twice a day before getting my allak cheap but they are out there.

 

Which makes me wonder... does anyone independently wind tunnel tents to test their various points of failure?

 

So... I needed a tent that was larger, light, and tough. Which narrowed it down to like 3 tents, 2 of them being Hillebergs. I am glad I am tall otherwise I probably would not shelled out the extra cash and never owned my awesome tents.

[BigSky]

I have the Rab Summit Mtn, and it does not have a vent/portal, it only vents at the door.

I was looking at the Superlite not the Mtn, but I thought the mountain had one on the side...apparently not.

[BigSky]

I thought about the Allak when I bought my last double wall. I'd like to give both it and the Jannu a run some time.

[Vickster]

I wonder if the number one reason people pass on the allak is it's price.

Edited March 25, 2010 by Vickster

[Water]

stl i sent you a pm -- leaning pretty solid towards the summit mountain, you seem to be the only person on the net i can find who owns this tent how do you like it? etc etc etc

[layton]

I'm still waiting on my backordered brooks-range rocket tent. 2-person, 1lb 6oz vented sailcloth that sets up with your poles and one tent pole (or any avy probe). My only beef is no netting for summer use, so I plan on making some sort of velcro mesh attachment. Downside is that it's $600, upside was knowing Mr. Brooks. I was hoping to test it out in Montana, but I still haven't gotten it yet so I'll have to demo it up at alta with a bottle of scotch and a willing girlfriend.

[EastCoastBastard]

I've been quite happy with my Sierra Designs Convert 2 - light, strong, breathes well, sets up easily and it's reasonably priced. It's got a removable vestibule that's plenty big for cooking in, there's lots of room inside for a relatively small footprint. my partner (6'3) and I (6') spent several days in it comfortably. I think "stripped down" it weighs about 4.5 lbs, with the vestibule it's about 5 or so.

I like it.

 

Graham

[MJaso]

Hey Water,

 

Sorry for the delay. I could bring my tent into work and weigh it without any frills, it might tip in a little higher than advertised as I've seem sealed it and added a tie in loop on the inside. I've found an excerpt from an old blog comparing the Nemo's OSMO with eVent. Hope this helps...

 

The NEMO Tenshi fabric is called OSMO. It has a 30D polyester ripstop base with a proprietary monolithic laminate on one side.

 

We (I'm an engineer at NEMO) changed over from eVENT for a few primary reasons:

 

1. the eVENT fabric being used was not fire-retardant and for tent to be available everywhere without exception, all fabrics must be FR-treated

 

2. The NEMO OSMO fabric (5618 g/24hr/m2)tested better in our independent lab fabric tests than eVent ev5005 (5304 g/24hr/m2). The test we use is ASTM E 96 METHOD BW (inverted).

 

3. The NEMO OSMO fabric has a lower weight (2.22 oz/yd2) than the eVent (2.84 oz/yd2).

 

Edited March 28, 2010 by MJaso

[Water]

mjaso:

 

thanks for the additional clarification! much appreciated. right now i have a good price on a summit mnt so i am leaning that way. Though i saw an old event nemo on ebay that i had my eye on.

 

stl if you're out there, I sent you a PM and would love to hear your take on the rab summit mountain (other than the lack of a rear vent) as i'm leaning towards that one but would love to read at least one field-based testimonial (odd there isn't a single one for that tent on the entire internet that i can find at least..maybe my 20-something google-skills are shameful)

[MattS]

I'll second the Hilleberg Nallo 2. You can sometimes pick them up for a great deal at AAI's annual sale in Bellingham. I've been very pleased with mine as it's light enough that I'll bring it even when I'm solo and it has plenty of room for us tall guys.

 

The only drawback (other than the retail price) is that it quite large. Great for camping on flatter surfaces, but if you're planning on camp on a steep slope you're going to spent a lot of time chopping a platform out. Personally if I was going to camp on something steep I'd use a firstlight and just accept that I'd have to curl up a bit to deal with the length issue. Other than that I love my Hilleberg.

[DanO]

http://www.tarptent.com/productsheets/SCARP2.pdf

 

http://www.tarptent.com/scarp2.html

 

 

MADE IN THE USA!

 

I would have gotten this tent rather than my last two tents

if I had known about it or it existed.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2010 by DanO