Health Care

[Nitrox]

Call me crazy but reading the single largest entitlement program in the history of this country...

In recent times that would have been the war in Iraq...

 

The wars that we're engaged in are nowhere near the cost of our actual entitlement programs.

 

 

I just looked at my W2 and realized I'm not making enough money so I maxed out all my credit cards and took out a payday loan.

 

 

[olyclimber]

[olyclimber]

and what is the underpinning of the Bush/Obama recession (or is it depression)? The free market behaving badly? Or was it that the government wasn't managing the markets enough?

[JayB]

and what is the underpinning of the Bush/Obama recession (or is it depression)? The free market behaving badly? Or was it that the government wasn't managing the markets enough?

 

[video:youtube]

[olyclimber]

we just need to put some duct tape on it and crank the engine back up! but not too much duct tape.

[Nitrox]

There isn't one singular event but generally government was mismanaged for over 30 years (we could also include Social Security and Medicare) as well as the repeal of Glass-Steagall by a Republican majority congress under the Clinton administration. It doesn't help that Bush came along and set a new standard for deficit spending and back room deals.

 

However, its important to blame the guy before you so lets pin it all on Bush (who certainly shares responsibility) and ignore the fact that we have an out of control government.

 

I love the bar graph though, Obama is looking like an over-achiever compared to Bush 1, Clinton, and Bush 2. I wonder what year 4 or 8 (god help us) will look like.

[olyclimber]

well it would have been interesting to see these charts if Obama had not "over achieved" from the moment he stepped into office:

 

 

 

 

[olyclimber]

[olyclimber]

[olyclimber]

This graph that Peter linked a while ago is due an update. Looks like they did update it but pulled it due to programming issues. Cool way to model data!

 

http://tipstrategies.com/archive/geography-of-jobs/

[Nitrox]

well it would have been interesting to see these charts if Obama had not "over achieved" from the moment he stepped into office:

 

 

Bush didn't force Obama to pass ARRA (Stimulus 2) and Healthcare, both of which eclipse all spending projects and war under the Bush administration. Bush also didn't force Obama to spend the unused TARP funds. Over-Achiever.

 

 

[j_b]

[video:youtube]SgFlJjnULh0

 

part 2:

part 3:

part 4:

part 5:

Edited April 12, 2010 by j_b

[j_b]

The wars that we're engaged in are nowhere near the cost of our actual entitlement programs.

 

Except that your pie chart is highly misleading because it includes trust funds like SS within the general fund and the expenses of past military spending are not distinguished from nonmilitary spending.

 

Where your income tax money really goes:

 

Total Outlays (Federal Funds): $2,650 billion

MILITARY: 54% and $1,449 billion

NON-MILITARY: 46% and $1,210 billion

 

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

 

 

[Nitrox]

The wars that we're engaged in are nowhere near the cost of our actual entitlement programs.

 

Except that your pie chart is highly misleading because it includes trust funds like SS within the general fund and the expenses of past military spending are not distinguished from nonmilitary spending.

 

Where your income tax money really goes:

 

Total Outlays (Federal Funds): $2,650 billion

MILITARY: 54% and $1,449 billion

NON-MILITARY: 46% and $1,210 billion

 

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

 

 

The pie chart isn't misleading, it's total spending broken down by percentage. Total spending, not total spending plus debt and assets. The next chart shows gross income broken down by category of origination.

 

Current spending is current spending, past spending that had to be borrowed to pay for is called debt. Your pie chart mixes current spending with debt. That anti-war site seams very confused on how Social Security is currently being run. The Social Security trust fund doesn't have liquid assets because its routinely borrowed from for programs such as the new healthcare bill ($65B). To say that it is self sustaining is a joke. Hence, why people call SS a Ponzi scheme...because its been borrowed so heavily against that current payments in are not even sustaining current payments out.

 

However, if we choose to accept that all spending numbers put out by the government is a lie then we can conclude that the $900B(conservatively since it doesn't include the "doctor fix" passed separately) estimated for Healthcare is a lie too. Medicare was estimated to cost $10B in 1964 and increase $2B over 25 years...it's currently over $500B. Hmmm, what's 50 times $900B?

 

At what point do we reduce spending? Cutting defense spending isn't enough and judging by Obama's current course not going to happen.

 

 

 

 

[j_b]

THe SS trust fund isn't part of the general fund or a ponzi scheme, no matter how many times you wish to regurgitate conservative anti-social programs propaganda. It's not because politicians regularly steal from the SS trust fund to pay for their wars that we have to make the same mistake of confusing general fund and SS trust fund that is paid for by working people.

 

And you didn't address the fact that your pie chart didn't identify financing for past wars into military expenditures.

[JayB]

THe SS trust fund isn't part of the general fund or a ponzi scheme, no matter how many times you wish to regurgitate conservative anti-social programs propaganda. It's not because politicians regularly steal from the SS trust fund to pay for their wars that we have to make the same mistake of confusing general fund and SS trust fund that is paid for by working people.

 

And you didn't address the fact that your pie chart didn't identify financing for past wars into military expenditures.

 

So the trust fund doesn't consist of special issue Treasury bonds that will have to be funded with general revenues when SS redeems them at the point when SS expenses exceed SS tax revenues? Great news.

 

Long as I'm here it's worth pointing out - again - that it was much easier for Uncle Sam to appropriate the funds in the SS "lockbox" and use them to pay for wars than it would have been by either raising taxes or borrowing the funds from the market via the normal Treasury auction mechanisms.

 

 

[Nitrox]

That's the US Federal spending for the year 2009. If past wars are wrapped into total outlay for the DOD then so be it. Sorry there isn't an extra special "past war" category.

 

As far as SS being separate, no where did I say it was part of the general fund. Its irrelevant anyway. Its a social program and part of the US government's spending. It may be separate from the general fund but its still paid for by the government. I get that you want the expense of war to look huge and SS excluded to help achieve that goal but if the government pays for it then it gets included in total spending because...its spending.

 

Sorry if you don't like SS being called a Ponzi scheme. It wasn't originally designed to be but that is exactly what its become. The only way it can continue at its current rate is if we boost new contributors (amnesty?) or reduce spending and pay back the IOU's in the fund.

 

 

 

[JayB]

More Lies! Regressive NeoCon Warmongers Say...California Pension Shortfall = 1/2 Trillion and Counting.

[j_b]

Despite regressive lies there is no SS crisis:

 

"Social Security continues to run annual surpluses and remains capable of paying scheduled benefits in full for the next three decades or so.

 

The deep recession has indisputably affected the Social Security system’s finances, and the next report of the Social Security Trustees — due this spring — is expected to show some deterioration in the program’s financial outlook. (Last year’s report estimated that starting in 2037, balances in the Social Security trust funds would be inadequate to pay full benefits promised under current law.) But Social Security faces no immediate threat."

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3104

[j_b]

always trust regressives to transfer wealth to the ever more wealthy and drive us to bankruptcy, then hear them claim that the state is bankrupt and we cannot afford social programs. It's classic disaster capitalism at work:

[video:youtube]JG9CM_J00bw

[j_b]

So the trust fund doesn't consist of special issue Treasury bonds that will have to be funded with general revenues when SS redeems them at the point when SS expenses exceed SS tax revenues? Great news.

 

beside fear-mongers nobody is claiming that will happen

 

Long as I'm here it's worth pointing out - again - that it was much easier for Uncle Sam to appropriate the funds in the SS "lockbox" and use them to pay for wars than it would have been by either raising taxes or borrowing the funds from the market via the normal Treasury auction mechanisms.

 

it's not because the robbers have been put in charge of keeping tab on the bank, that we should get rid of the bank. The proper solution is to put the robbers in jail.

[JayB]

Despite regressive lies there is no SS crisis:

 

"Social Security continues to run annual surpluses and remains capable of paying scheduled benefits in full for the next three decades or so.

 

The deep recession has indisputably affected the Social Security system’s finances, and the next report of the Social Security Trustees — due this spring — is expected to show some deterioration in the program’s financial outlook. (Last year’s report estimated that starting in 2037, balances in the Social Security trust funds would be inadequate to pay full benefits promised under current law.) But Social Security faces no immediate threat."

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3104

 

Tell this regressive precisely what the SS trust fund is composed of, and where the money will come from to fund the redemptions.

 

 

 

[j_b]

are you really claiming that politicians didn't use the SS trust fund to pay for general fund expenditure?

[Nitrox]

Zing, off in a new direction he goes.

[JayB]

are you really claiming that politicians didn't use the SS trust fund to pay for general fund expenditure?

 

No. You?

 

What is the trust fund composed of, and where will the assets required to fund the redemptions of the said assets come from when the annual cost of paying for SS benefits begins to exceed the value of the SS taxes collected in a given year.