Bolt concerns - Silhouettes @ Vantage

[Reid]

I climbed silhouettes this weekend at Vantage and found (at least from my perspective) the anchor bolts to be untrustworthy for either top roping or rappelling. I ended up lowering some rope down to tag up part of a rack so I could top out on the mesa and bring up a second and retrieve gear.

 

Both bolts for this anchor are on the pillar top. Both are in flakes that are hollow feeling and sounding. It seems the flakes could easily be removed by hand. The bolts seem to go deeper than the surface flake, but it is simply a guess (on my part) as to how far and how solid those bolts are. Someone has placed a knotted cord wedged in a crack as a backup, but it also suffers from loose rock in the area.

 

My concern here is that a group equipped only with QD's would be forced to use these anchors. The route is three stars and recommeded by the guidebook as possibly the best on the Kotick Memorial Wall. I've used some questionable bolts and gear here and there before, but have found reasons why what I was doing made sense. Here you would be trusting two bolts as a top rope or rap anchor, both questionable and it is at least 10 feet down to the last bolt on the pitch.

 

I don't have any bolting experience, but I think the rock just a foot or two higher is much higher quality. Could someone with recent memory of the route or local bolting experience chime in?

[aussie69]

Not to spray or anything. But your in Vantage. Can any of the rock there REALLY be trusted?

[Rafe1234]

Send an email or something to Jim Yoder. He'd probably check it out if you report a questionable anchor set up, and most likely fix it if it is of dubious quality.

[Reid]

Thanks Rafe, I think I'll do that.

 

Aussie, yeah I hear you, but it's hard to put your blind faith in the anchors when you can see obvious problems with them. It could be improved is all.

[Off_White]

Or send a PM to Lucky here on this site, he's a good caretaker of several climbing areas with a significant love for Vantage.

[billcoe]

3/8 5 steel piece, 1/2" x 7" wedge anchor SS, 3/8 steel wedge anchor.

 

 

This picture needed a home. Good luck!

[Off_White]

Is that your standard for basalt these days Bill? Can't you just use a fixed pin or a crack 'n up?

[JosephH]

I'm the one who's into toothpicks. Bill is all about major artillery. And I'm glad he is as the high anchor on my new line is two of those 7" babies punching through the outer bookpage-like sheets of rock that chunk of face is made of.

[billcoe]

Soft rock Off. Or plates like JH says, but for me, plates were so last year. This year is soft rock.

 

I fished that old steel stuff out of the basement thinking I might have needed to hand drill a bolt. Figured I might need to remove and redrill later with a big one but as it turned out, didn't need any bolts, even the rap point was a horn.

 

These have been hanging around since back in the day, but I quickly learned about stainless steel back when. I haven't placed steel for years. Glad I had it with me, equally glad I didn't have to drill as well, what a pain in the ass.

[G-spotter]

Not to spray or anything. But your in Vantage. Can any of the rock there REALLY be trusted?

What he said. Why worry about bolts when whole columns fall with distressing regularity?

[jmace]

It seems the flakes could easily be removed by hand.

 

then what happened? Did you just leave it or they cant be removed by hand?

[wayne]

We climbed it today and what a shame, it is such a great route . It is possible to goto another anchor off to the side in the end, and set up a long sling/blue tcu backup. I am thinking freeze-thaw has loosened up the flakes. If they are long bolts, the anchor is prolly ok, but...