JosephH Posted October 9, 2009 Share Posted October 9, 2009 I normally try to be reasonbly objective in tone and stick to the facts in these posts, but I'll make an exception with this one. Someone basically thrashed, stomped, and strong-armed their way up the SE Corner recently and removed and f#cked up the p1 anchor, unnecessarily and dangerously trundled a bunch of rocks off the p1/p2 traverse, tore holds off the start of p2 and topped it off by yarding on the p2 crux horn so hard that now it's just a matter of time before it's gone. This party of climbers was either a) malicious or b) so extraordinarily inept, misguided, and unable to control their movement to the point they should just quit climbing all together or, at the very least, foresake even the idea of trad climbing ever again. So the deal with the anchors out at Beacon. Every anchor you could likely ever arrive at out there (unless you're climbing with Ivan) is actively maintained - they don't need to be removed, replaced, or 'augmented' with more sling material. The SE Corner anchor that was tampered with was even date stamped '08' - you could have trundled your car onto it and it would have held just fine. Instead, two 1" independent sliding X slings and 50kn SS rings were removed and replaced, with a great deal of effort, in order to replace them with a single piece of lousily installed 1" and only one of the two rings (the other they just took). Again, all the anchors you'll run into out at Beacon are bomb - they don't require anything. Of late I've heard a couple of people state "I was taught to never use existing anchors" - which is great and might make some sense if you're always in some remote alpine setting - but at Beacon just look at and examine what you've encountered and use some common sense - not static, dogmatic rulesets. In fact, static and dogmatically applied 'rules' is a lousy way to approach trad climbing. There are no hard and fast 'rules' trad climbing - every climb, every pitch, every hold, and every situation is unique even on a route you've done a thousand times. You need to rely on and develop your own knowledgebase, intuition, instinct, judgment, and above all, common sense, - not some mindlessly arbitrary set of 'rules'. And the 'loose' rock business. It's Beacon. The trail, ledges and routes all have 'loose' rocks on them; many of those 'loose' rocks are key foot or hand holds. If you're going to climb out at Beacon then you need to learn to accept and deal with that - to step, walk, pull, and climb lightly with control over your movements and weight distribution in order to be gentle on things. And if you find a hold that's slightly loose, well, it's probably been that way for decades and thousands of people have been using it and can likely use it for decades to come. Please don't yard them off simply because they happen to make you a little queasy. If you encounter something, anything, you think needs attention then just pm me / Ivan / kevbone / Bill Coe / etc., email brca@googlegroups.com, or tell Opdycke about it if you see him and it be dealt with straight away. But don't mess with the anchors and under no circumstances randomly pitch rocks off of routes - stack them off to the side in some nook, base of a bush, or small ledge and they'll get cleaned either some night or before the start of the next season. State="Off"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsroll Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 I did not know it was stapped "08" but reguardless those slings looked fine. To replace it with the crap job they did sucks. Cleaning on a heavly traveled route like the Corner is also bull. If there is loose stuff leave it. It might be there for a reason. Sorry to say that I did not see the offenders, words would have been had!!!! Thanks for your work out there Joseph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Ken was in town. I wish he would have seen them. They would not climb there again if he had. Lame someone would mess with the anchors. I have to agree with JH on this. The current anchor system at Beacon is bomb proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Cleaning on a heavly traveled route like the Corner is also bull. If there is loose stuff leave it. It might be there for a reason. i also appreciate joseph's efforts, but was just wondering what "reason" there might be for leaving "loose stuff" on a heavily travelled route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 10, 2009 Author Share Posted October 10, 2009 Simply put, navigating any number of routes at Beacon requires a modicum of finesse and a shred of awareness and control over your weight distribution during moves if we collectively don't want those climbs to change on a weekly or monthly basis. I won't do apes the disservice of desrcibing what went on as 'aping' up the route completely oblivous to the impact of wailing on everything you touch. Beacon is subject to significant 24x7 vibrations from trains as well as a strong freeze thaw icing cycle and that inevitably leads to loose rock, but nature doesn't need our help in cluelessly accelerating the loss of holds or rocks that are stablizing ledges and trails. As it stands now we are likely to witness some serious over-winter erosion of the p1/p2 traverse past the tree and, if nothing is done about it, the disinegration of the area around the p2 crux moves. As it is today, the p2 crux horn and surrounding rock will be lucky to survive the rest of the season. I'm personally ok with dealing with that, but in all likelyhood the combination of existing and newly missing holds along with traverse erosion will make the line that much more intimidating affair for beginners and new leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pink Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 global warming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinp Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 The best way off the start of the second pitch (slab)...is to go up and right. There is an old bolt with no hanger on it...this is like 5.8 or something, but it is bomber rock. Then it connects up to the slab cracks. Screw going up and left through the loose blocks. IMO Any thoughts on kevbone's suggestion of going right to enter the slab. I was looking up at this last time I climbed the corner with LCK and thought it may need a little work but could be fun. As for the horn being loose… WTF? I climb like a drunken monkey at times, but have never felt the urge to yard on that horn simply tension off and get my feet up. Some one was obviously having a "what the fawk have I got myself into" moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Up and right of the anchor is the more solid way to go. You can put on a nut (looped wire) on an old stud sticking out of the wall. I think the move is like 5.8. As for the horn. I quit using it a few years ago. Look around. There is solid rock everywhere. And no where. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froodish Posted October 10, 2009 Share Posted October 10, 2009 Bogus about the anchors and "cleaning". As for the route off the belay below the slab, I think I've always gone that way - never even occurred to me to head up into that loose stuff. Been about a year since I've done the route, but I remember plenty of gear available in the crack on the slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el jefe Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Simply put, navigating any number of routes at Beacon requires a modicum of finesse and a shred of awareness and control over your weight distribution during moves if we collectively don't want those climbs to change on a weekly or monthly basis. I won't do apes the disservice of desrcibing what went on as 'aping' up the route completely oblivous to the impact of wailing on everything you touch. Beacon is subject to significant 24x7 vibrations from trains as well as a strong freeze thaw icing cycle and that inevitably leads to loose rock, but nature doesn't need our help in cluelessly accelerating the loss of holds or rocks that are stablizing ledges and trails. As it stands now we are likely to witness some serious over-winter erosion of the p1/p2 traverse past the tree and, if nothing is done about it, the disinegration of the area around the p2 crux moves. As it is today, the p2 crux horn and surrounding rock will be lucky to survive the rest of the season. I'm personally ok with dealing with that, but in all likelyhood the combination of existing and newly missing holds along with traverse erosion will make the line that much more intimidating affair for beginners and new leaders. so the "loose stuff" is stabilizing the other loose stuff thus keeping the whole shit pile from falling down? maybe we need to get a gang of people together to search the bushes below the ledge, find the rocks that have fallen off/were pulled off and put them back. the trains are an interesting point, too. what are the people at index doing to keep trains from making the lower town wall crumble into oblivion? maybe they got some secret trick we need to start using to keep beacon from falling apart. honestly, i get the point about the anchor be meddled with, but it is in the nature of "loose stuff" to come off, especially on heavily travelled routes. gravity is a relentless foe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Normally I'm the guy who thinks cutting it loose in a planned manner and sooner rather than later, is a good thing. However, out there, the problem with pulling/ripping off stuff that is only slightly loose and would be fine for years, is that is makes other stuff weaker...unnecessarily. Sucks that they stole the other rap ring too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 hahaha.....there is that stud I mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 The anchor's been replaced, but it still defies any notion of logic or sanity that they thought the trash they left was somehow better or safer than what was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 the trains are an interesting point, too. what are the people at index doing to keep trains from making the lower town wall crumble into oblivion? maybe they got some secret trick we need to start using to keep beacon from falling apart. Don't know how close the trains are to the lower town wall, but at Beacon that's one of the busier tracks on the west coast and the first time you bivy up on it you realize just how much the trains shake the entire formation. What I think really does the job on the place, though, is the vibration from the trains as thick ice is thawing, that as the ice load comes off it weakens or pulls a fair amount of stone in the process each winter/spring, just less so on the south face than the other sides. I suspect the west and northwest faces bear the brunt of it judging from the amount of rock that has been coming down them over the years. On the south face the majority of rock fall is, unfortunately, generated from the chutes and faces high above the start to the SE Corner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrgo Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 the trains are an interesting point, too. what are the people at index doing to keep trains from making the lower town wall crumble into oblivion? maybe they got some secret trick we need to start using to keep beacon from falling apart. Easy... Index actually has good rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 At Index the train is not right under the cliff(lower Town Wall) like at Beacon. It sets back quite aways, and doesn't shake the crag like at Beacon where you can almost feel the ground tremors coming up. Upper Town Wall is almost a mile away from the train. So I was not imagining when I pulled on the horn and it moved on SE corner! Its why I suggested that glueing that hold might be a possibility. I know that goes against all that is good and right in this world, but seems like if it was so save that crucial section from deteriorating, it might be the way to go. ok, go ahead and blast me guys......just back from 3 days at Index climbing with Rick, man that place is burly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 No one is doing any blasting for the suggestion, just trying to sort things out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 12, 2009 Share Posted October 12, 2009 Lame someone has messed with the anchors at Beacon, or the routes.....but lets not forget, its public land. No one person owns it....even though JH likes to think he owns it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 12, 2009 Author Share Posted October 12, 2009 How's that midlife retirement going? Not to worry, I'm sure you'll see rock again before you're 50 or so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berl Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 i went up the SE corner for the first time in the middle of september- it was my first time to beacon and it was great. and no, we didnt play jenga with any flake-stacks after the traverse pitch or trundle anything or cut any webbing. two things: 1. i didn't use that webbing because it was faded and unusual- i mostly wondered...who puts little stamped medals on zip-tied anchors? the state park? the boy scouts? does it mean 1908? but seriously, I mostly thought the ziptie business just made it harder to inspect. i bet the anchor-screwers of late thought they were doing everyone a service. 2. since flake-by-flake descriptions are the norm around here, where did y'all place gear when headed for the (now loose?) horn on p3? i dont think we found any great gear until well up on the slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 2. since flake-by-flake descriptions are the norm around here, where did y'all place gear when headed for the (now loose?) horn on p3? i dont think we found any great gear until well up on the slab. Assuming you are counting the traverse as pitch two..... As you head up and left from the anchor below the horn. There is a bomber nut placement eye level out and right from just below the horn. Or....skip that way and go up and right from the anchor. See the posts above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 i didn't use that webbing because it was faded and unusual- i mostly wondered...who puts little stamped medals on zip-tied anchors? the state park? the boy scouts? does it mean 1908? but seriously, I mostly thought the ziptie business just made it harder to inspect. i bet the anchor-screwers of late thought they were doing everyone a service. Hmmm. With all due respect, I would posit that people looking at that anchor and thinking twice about it says more about the state of trad knowledge and experience today. The interpretation of "08" is a matter of basic common sense and at the very least should have conveyed the notion that it was an actively maintained anchor. There was nothing about the appearance of the anchor that should have given one pause from a materials standpoint. Two independent 1" sliding-X slings installed in 2008 would be solid to hang your car from for the next five years minimum. Testing has shown one inch milspec sling material is bomb after completely fading out to white, and the fading wasn't significant on the anchor in question. The tie-wraps keep the the tandem sliding-X slings paired and organized and they do actually afford all necessary inspection of the installation. BUT, you do have to some idea what you're looking at and some familiarity with the materials in question. That anyone would think they're better off replacing two independent slings and SS rings of any age with a badly installed single sling and ring combo (or just skipping the webbing and rings altogether) defies all notions of common sense and logic. Bottomline? However well intended, it was a bad judgment call from a trad climbing perspective and one that belies either rank inexperience, gross incompetence, or both. In either case it was done by someone who doesn't realize they have neither the experience nor judgment to be making such calls on such a public and well-travelled venue. But, c'est la vie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 i didn't use that webbing because it was faded and unusual- i mostly wondered...who puts little stamped medals on zip-tied anchors? the state park? the boy scouts? does it mean 1908? but seriously, I mostly thought the ziptie business just made it harder to inspect. i bet the anchor-screwers of late thought they were doing everyone a service. Hmmm. With all due respect, I would posit that people looking at that anchor and thinking twice about it says more about the state of trad knowledge and experience today. The interpretation of "08" is a matter of basic common sense and at the very least should have conveyed the notion that it was an actively maintained anchor. There was nothing about the appearance of the anchor that should have given one pause from a materials standpoint. Two independent 1" sliding-X slings installed in 2008 would be solid to hang your car from for the next five years minimum. Testing has shown one inch milspec sling material is bomb after completely fading out to white, and the fading wasn't significant on the anchor in question. The tie-wraps keep the the tandem sliding-X slings paired and organized and they do actually afford all necessary inspection of the installation. BUT, you do have to some idea what you're looking at and some familiarity with the materials in question. That anyone would think they're better off replacing two independent slings and SS rings of any age with a badly installed single sling and ring combo (or just skipping the webbing and rings altogether) defies all notions of common sense and logic. Bottomline? However well intended, it was an bad judgment call from a trad climbing perspective and one that belies either rank inexperience, gross incopetence, or both. In either case it was done by someone who doesn't realize they have neither the experience nor judgment to be making such calls on such a public and well-travelled venue. But, c'est la vie. It's hard to tell.....is that a slam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JosephH Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 As I said on the other thread, I often lack in patience and social grace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevetimetravlr Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 When I looked at that anchor setup, my thought was you could haul a brick shithouse off it. Obviously well maintained, in a lovingly overkill kind of way, you could almost see the artiste signature. Hard to believe anyone would think they would need to replace it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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