Which is more trad?

[counterfeitfake]

Which is more trad?

[counterfeitfake]

I do not believe that only three people wish to vote in this very important poll.

[Rad]

Trad, in my view, is cracks that are freeclimbed and protected with removable gear, where one is following a natural line of crack(s). Climbs that fit this include Aries, GM, Rogers/BOC, Toxic Shock, Godzilla, Heart of the Country,and many others at Index. The NE Buttress of Higher Cathedral, Braile Book, Nutcracker in Yosemite. Backbone ridge of Dtail. Burger Stanley and other routes on Prussik etc etc etc.

 

Dreamer is mostly bolt protected slab. Bolts are not trad in any book.

 

Grand wall has two bolt ladders, which are even less trad than bolted slabs. The Grand does follow a natural line of cracks, which is more than we can say for Dreamer, but it also has a bolted crack (Perry's) so that takes away points.

 

In short, your poll is like asking which grade is more acceptable, C- or D+. NEITHER is acceptable!

 

[G-spotter]

Bolts are not trad in any book.

 

Yeah, that Bachar/Yerian route? Total sport climb dude.

[Rad]

Bolts are not trad in any book.

 

Yeah, that Bachar/Yerian route? Total sport climb dude.

 

You'll notice I never mentioned sport in my post, dude. Bolted climbs are not trad IMHO, regardless of whether they are ground-up, onsight, and bolted by hand from hooks or rappel bolted with a Hilti. If your trad defn is different then post it and let the discussion continue.

[pink]

crack is not trad, crack climbing is crack climbing. trad spells danger in my mind... just cause u threw some gear in doesn't mean it's trad. i hate the word "trad", it's called climbing... plain and simple.

[billcoe]

crack is not trad, crack climbing is crack climbing. trad spells danger in my mind... just cause u threw some gear in doesn't mean it's trad. i hate the word "trad", it's called climbing... plain and simple.

'

 

Pffft - that's what all the old "developers" say....

[pink]

u mean the route setters? they're everywhere...BEWARE!!!!

[counterfeitfake]

Bolts are not trad in any book.

Yeah, that Bachar/Yerian route? Total sport climb dude.

You'll notice I never mentioned sport in my post, dude. Bolted climbs are not trad IMHO, regardless of whether they are ground-up, onsight, and bolted by hand from hooks or rappel bolted with a Hilti. If your trad defn is different then post it and let the discussion continue.

This is exactly the point I think is up for debate. People typically try to think of climbing as divided between sport and trad. Something has to budge because neither the Grand Wall nor Dreamer is a sport route. I wouldn't even call Silent Running a sport route. Infinite Bliss is no sport route. I don't think that is debateable. But if you argue they aren't trad routes either... what are they?

 

I think that a climb establshed ground-up, bolted on lead and by hand can qualify to be called trad. "Trad" means "traditional" right? What is the tradition? When was the term invented? I feel that it would be harder to get more "traditional" than some of the hard lines put up in Yosemite in the 60s, for example. There are more than a few bolt ladders on those.

 

To me the essence of trad is not the type of protection used, but the spirit required.

 

crack is not trad, crack climbing is crack climbing. trad spells danger in my mind... just cause u threw some gear in doesn't mean it's trad. i hate the word "trad", it's called climbing... plain and simple.

For once I may find myself agreeing with Pink.

[pink]

Bolts are not trad in any book.

Yeah, that Bachar/Yerian route? Total sport climb dude.

You'll notice I never mentioned sport in my post, dude. Bolted climbs are not trad IMHO, regardless of whether they are ground-up, onsight, and bolted by hand from hooks or rappel bolted with a Hilti. If your trad defn is different then post it and let the discussion continue.

This is exactly the point I think is up for debate. People typically try to think of climbing as divided between sport and trad. Something has to budge because neither the Grand Wall nor Dreamer is a sport route. I wouldn't even call Silent Running a sport route. Infinite Bliss is no sport route. I don't think that is debateable. But if you argue they aren't trad routes either... what are they?

 

I think that a climb establshed ground-up, bolted on lead and by hand can qualify to be called trad. "Trad" means "traditional" right? What is the tradition? When was the term invented? I feel that it would be harder to get more "traditional" than some of the hard lines put up in Yosemite in the 60s, for example. There are more than a few bolt ladders on those.

 

To me the essence of trad is not the type of protection used, but the spirit required.

 

crack is not trad, crack climbing is crack climbing. trad spells danger in my mind... just cause u threw some gear in doesn't mean it's trad. i hate the word "trad", it's called climbing... plain and simple.

For once I may find myself agreeing with Pink.

[LostCamKenny]

I was under the impression that trad is a style of climbing and not a type of protection. Bolts have been used for decades - anyone remember hearing about Harding's all-night-bolting-affair on The Nose? Bolts are traditional in that light, eh?

[shapp]

Asking the question on the internet to begin with is less trad.

[counterfeitfake]

The venue may have changed, but spray is eminently trad.

[Rad]

so my trad rack/gear can be quickdraws or slings with biners? Certainly sounds cheaper.

[Rad]

This is like debating whether a climb should be old school 5.9 or 5.10a or sport wimp 5.10c.

 

At the end of the day the climb is what it is, regardless of grade or style. Each route, thankfully, is unique and special.

 

Now get the Yosemite hammer to hug the hilti and be done with it.

[shaoleung]

Trad = R&D @ 11'worth. That's hard core. Don't F*ck with it.

[Drederek]

What Is Traditional Climbing?

Traditional climbing, or "trad" climbing, as it's popularly known, is how climbing was always done until fairly recently. In the "old days" of the 1980s, trad was simply known as climbing. It was only after sport climbing took off that a name had to be created to distinguish this style of climbing.

 

How is trad different from sport climbing?

 

In the simplest terms, sport climbing focuses almost entirely on physical challenges, while trad climbing involves a mental game as well.

Traditional climbing involves carrying and placing protection (chocks, camming devices and so on) rather than clipping into preplaced bolts.

The traditional climber must practice route-finding, whereas a sport climber follows the bolts up a particular route.

Traditional climbing requires technical knowledge of climbing anchors and skill in making them. Sport climbing requires little technical knowledge of equipment.

Sport climbers think nothing of falling repeatedly while trying to figure out a tough move; trad climbers are careful not to fall on the anchors they place.

Trad climbing is nearly always done outside on real rock where no preset bolts exist, rather than in a gym.

 

Who sez REI ain't with it?

 

[G-spotter]

I like the way they mention that trad climbing is "nearly always done outside"