"Periodization? "

[dmuja]

 

Do any of you use macro/mezo/micro cycles to train? This could be in strength training, cardio/endurance or more sport specific (ie climbing) training. There are many many versions of "periodization" these days but the over riding priciple is that you should train different aspects of fitness at different times (phases) as opposed to continuously building everything at once.

 

Im curious about things like..

 

a) on a scale of 1-10, how structured your personal training regiment is?

 

b) if youve seen a payoff from "periodizing" your training schedule?

 

c) do you use a modified version of periodization, don't use or even disagree with the traditional "linear" methods of training specific aspects of fitness in different phases?

 

 

In my case, I seem to have seen some payoff in certain aspects of fitness -and health, ie "injury avoidance"- by using a periodized approach to training but I wonder what others/climbers think.

 

tnx

[Serenity]

a. 7-8 depending on the season. Hitting a ten would require a more intense lifestyle change, that is unlikely with a 3 year old, and my work schedule.

 

b. Yes, it's probably the most sensible approach to a long term training regimen. For me switching to macro/micro cycles has been a great way to prevent injury, and just as importantly, burnout.

 

It also provides a framework for focus. When all I did was climb I never really trained, or had any direction other than 'do this route, or try this boulder problem'. Skiing really didn't help me focus any better, because I would often hit a series of powder days that were impossible to pass up, and would just go until my legs wouldn't work anymore. A lot of fun, but hard on the body.

 

For my main athletic interests I maintain a sport specific training paradigm throughout the year, but vary the intensity, time, and EXACT type of training. As competitions come closer I train specific to the event, and in the off season take a more general approach. I also throw in a good dose of various styles of yoga to *connect* the various seasons.

 

c. I modify to suit my personal goals in racing, or work related physical necessities. In racing your micro cycles equate to previewing courses at or near maximum efficiency.

[John Frieh]

A) 8? Kinda depends on who you are comparing me against

 

B) Yes

 

C) I use conjugate periodation as a foundation w/ reoccuring cyclic emphasis on certain fitness attributes I feel benefical to my overall fitness/climbing goals.

[Dane]

a) on a scale of 1-10, how structured your personal training regiment is?

 

Very structured (9, as in daily recovery/ workouts) now but little emphasis on climbing. Climbing is simply cross training on my program.

 

 

b) if you've seen a payoff from "periodizing" your training schedule?

 

I've climbed for years, easy 5.12 trad and hard ice in the past.

Trained then by climbing/running. Basic idea was the specificity of training from the eastern block reasearch. If I was only using "climbing" now as workouts yes I would periodize that training for specific goals.

 

 

c) do you use a modified version of periodization, don't use or even disagree

 

I now use a pretty straight forward periodization program. Been doing it for 5 years and out side of injuries getting stronger and faster every year. Big help in coming back from or preventing injuries I think. But it is not a climbing specific plan. What fitness i might have for climbing comes from my periodization and general fitness level at that point in my training plan.

 

FWIW my experience is climbing has been pretty specific. My thought has been if you want to get better at climbing, climb. Periodization and peaking for a goal is hard enough when you have relative control of the environment. An example is peaking for a road race 12 weeks out. Depending on the style of climbing...say alpine, much of the time frames are definded by the conditions and weather.

 

I have spent weeks at a time tent bound....hard to peak for a climb in that kind of situation. I know Twight suggests it and has done it. I have held true peak form for 4 or 5 weeks before abilities drop off (doing triathlons) but never on a a long climbing trip and never without being in fairly controled environment. (Rock climbing in Yosemite could be a good example of a built/power/peak in periodization depending on your stay) Basically I need to do specific workouts/work loads every day to stay at that level for a "long" period of time.

 

One of the things I wonder about now is if a combination of a periodization general fitness program (crossfit) and an additional climbing specific program in combination wouldn't be the best of both worlds.

[John Frieh]

Crossfit and Pavel use random periodization... this approach has been proven as a viable general physical preparation program... it uses the idea of randomness and intensity to elicit rapid gains and adaptations for users. As far as I have seen there is not a lot out there WRT programming (as it is random) but in general power endurance and metabolic conditioning efforts are emphasized over max effort strength training. People estimate that using a random programming approach will result in achieving 65-70% of you potential in your sport.

 

As detailed in this issue of Outside Twight attended a CF level 1 in 2003 and "got his ass kicked"... he ended up affiliating for a few years before Twight concluded the CF approach of random was coming at the cost of sport specific training/performance. As a result Twight now uses CF as a foundation but has since moved to conjugate periodization with a cyclic emphasis... the catch is if you watch/follow the WODs posted on gym jones you wont see this/wont be getting this as Twight/Maximus selectively post a particular client's WOD... each client there is training for something different and as a result does a different WOD (often not always the one posted).

 

What Dane mentions:

 

One of the things I wonder about now is if a combination of a periodization general fitness program (crossfit) and an additional climbing specific program in combination wouldn't be the best of both worlds.

 

is what Twight was/is trying to do @ gym jones... unfortunately the bulk of "higher caliber" gym jones cliental are MMA fighters. Rob @ mtnathlete is IMO making leaps and bounds in this area... just spend 20 minutes looking at the workouts and you will see Rob blending CF w/ sport specific training in one session. Additionally Rob has some badass alpinists training at his gym giving his real time feedback on his programming/WOD design so he is constantly tweaking it to deliver the best sport specific training. If you ask me look for a lot more from him in the coming years

 

And I assume you are talking about training for alpine climbing or are you referring to training for rock climbing?

[crackers]

Rob @ mtnathlete.com is IMO making leaps and bounds in this area... just spend 20 minutes looking at the workouts and you will see Rob blending CF w/ sport specific training in one session. Additionally Rob has some badass alpinists training at his gym giving his real time feedback on his programming/WOD design so he is constantly tweaking it to deliver the best sport specific training. If you ask me look for a lot more from him in the coming years

 

I think you'll see a lot of interesting stuff coming out of mtnathlete now, and I more or less expect rob's idea structure to be dominant for alpinists.

 

 

a) on a scale of 1-10, how structured your personal training regiment is?

 

Historical values ranged from 10 to 2. Right now, I'd say I'm around 4+.

 

b) if youve seen a payoff from "periodizing" your training schedule?

 

Historically, for bike racing, absolutely. For alpine climbing trips -- and i've never climbed alpine very hard -- yes, definitely. For rock climbing, I couldn't provide a really good answer.

 

c) do you use a modified version of periodization, don't use or even disagree with the traditional "linear" methods of training specific aspects of fitness in different phases?

 

Rob at Mtnathlete provided some very compelling observational arguments about conjugate periodization and methodology in his seminar in Portland back in September. It's what I'll be doing in the future. These days, I train mostly for general health and fitness, but the only way to stay in the gym is to orient my training towards vacation goals...Random periodization kills my desire to go to the gym and bores the pants off of me.

 

Just my $0.02.

 

[jon]

I personally believe most people in training are misguided and apply principles and theories outside of the context they were developed for. In the case of periodization, it was developed for elite athletes who's job it is to train and compete. They train at workloads and intensities much higher then even the best amateur athletes. These people don't work 8 hours a day and then go train, or at least in most cases. I personally don't believe that it applies to athletes who are operating at 80% or less of their "potential". Most athletes fall into the 80% or less category. People in this category who use periodization are most likely detraining their bodies instead of regenerating because they haven't reached a large enough stimulus and peak to realize the benefits of it. A rest week is a wasted week in my mind. With proper rest days incorporated I don't believe rest weeks are necessary until you start reaching above the 80%. As fitness increases your potential for blowing the crap out of yourself increases and you start putting more strains on your various systems that require regeneration. At that point you should start considering a periodized plan.

 

The reality is there is never a one size fit all recipe besides just pure blood sweat and tears hard work, which I think is where Twight really hits the nail on the head better then anyone.

[John Frieh]

Maybe my definition of periodization is different than Jon's but I would argue included in the definition of periodization is "how often/frequent you do what you do"

 

Say for rock climbing... I would argue (and could totally be wrong) how many times a day/week/month/cycle/etc you:

 

Work power vs endurance vs power endurance vs strength vs etc etc

 

by doing

 

redpoint attempts vs traversing for 30 minutes vs 4x4s vs system boards vs HIT strips vs frenchies vs etc etc

 

is dictated by what you are training for whether it be

 

the nose in a day or midnight lightening or etc etc

 

Each goal and each climber is going to do a different workout to achieve the readiness needed. This IMO is periodization and IMO everyone benefits from it assuming they are programming their training regiment correctly.

 

And yeah: blood, sweat, tears and occasionally puke

[Dane]

I was using Joe Friel's writings as an example and definition of periodization if that helps.

 

Basic outline is transition, prep, base, build, peak. It can easily be applied to any sport. You can do the cycles in a month or so or apply it over a year as I do currently.