Finally. God Defined.

[General Zod]

The Great Big in the Sky.

[dmuja]

"Finally. God Defined"

 

exactly the problem

[tvashtarkatena]

Coincidence? I think not.

 

 

[godskid5]

I think it takes more faith to not believe in God than it does to believe in Him.

I don't understand how people can believe the earth, indeed the whole universe was created out of nothing, by accident. That by some infinitesimal odds the universe came into being from nothing. Then that nothing over billions of years became what we know today. An earth that has just the right amount of oxygen to support life, trees that give off this life giving gas by taking in the co we breath off and converting it. We have a star that just happens to be the exact distance from the earth to support life! Two humans can come together (ok, hahaha) and create a baby that grows inside of it's mothers womb till just the right time! All the electrical impulses in the brain and throughout the nervous system to make your body work, to breath, and the heart to beat. The ability to think (or at least most of us can!)

 

In my opinion, that takes a lot of faith!!! People like odds, talking about "the odds of being struck by lightning", "winning the lottery", "an asteroid striking the earth". What about the odds of all this stuff coming together just so?

 

This page goes into all the odds related to a spontaneous creation.

http://www.earthtraces.com/godsodds.shtml

 

I heard this on the radio and it really stuck with me. I believe in God. I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe he died on the cross, was buried and on the third day was raised again. I believe he then ascended into heaven to be at the right hand of the father. I believe that through Jesus Christ I can have an eternal life in heaven after I die here. Because of this, I live my life with a hope, a hope of something eternal. Something to actually look forward to after I die! As a non believer, you can not imagine the hope, and the complete joy this gives to those of us who put our trust in God. You may live a good happy life as a non believer, but what about when you die? most athiests I have heard believe that death is it! That does not give you much to look forward to!! I would dread growing old!!!

Now here is the thing, lets say I am wrong. Let's say that you are right, there is no God, no heaven, and no hell. When you die, you die, and that is all. I will not lose anything!!! I will have lived my life full of a hope in an eternal life, but then when I die I will not know that it did not happen! It would be over, the end, oh well!! And yet I still had a wonderful life while I was alive.

Now lets turn the tables and say for a minute that I am right. There is a God, and a heaven and hell. You may live a very fulfilling, happy, wonderful life. But then when you die, what happens? I believe the Bible when it says "narrow is the gate to heaven, but wide is the gate to destruction". If you do not have God in your life, (remember, we're assuming for a moment that there is) then I believe you go to hell.

Now this is why, as God fearing christians, we believe we need to tell everyone we can about Him!!! Not because we think we are better than anyone else (at least we shouldn't!!) but because we do care about our fellow humans! God wants for none to parish, but for all to live with him in eternity!!! And we need to do our part to let people know the Truth!

Sorry for being so long winded!!!!!!!

 

God Bless

dave

[marc_leclerc]

I think it takes more faith to not believe in God than it does to believe in Him.

I don't understand how people can believe the earth, indeed the whole universe was created out of nothing, by accident. That by some infinitesimal odds the universe came into being from nothing. Then that nothing over billions of years became what we know today. An earth that has just the right amount of oxygen to support life, trees that give off this life giving gas by taking in the co we breath off and converting it. We have a star that just happens to be the exact distance from the earth to support life! Two humans can come together (ok, hahaha) and create a baby that grows inside of it's mothers womb till just the right time! All the electrical impulses in the brain and throughout the nervous system to make your body work, to breath, and the heart to beat. The ability to think (or at least most of us can!)

 

In my opinion, that takes a lot of faith!!! People like odds, talking about "the odds of being struck by lightning", "winning the lottery", "an asteroid striking the earth". What about the odds of all this stuff coming together just so?

 

This page goes into all the odds related to a spontaneous creation.

http://www.earthtraces.com/godsodds.shtml

 

I heard this on the radio and it really stuck with me. I believe in God. I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe he died on the cross, was buried and on the third day was raised again. I believe he then ascended into heaven to be at the right hand of the father. I believe that through Jesus Christ I can have an eternal life in heaven after I die here. Because of this, I live my life with a hope, a hope of something eternal. Something to actually look forward to after I die! As a non believer, you can not imagine the hope, and the complete joy this gives to those of us who put our trust in God. You may live a good happy life as a non believer, but what about when you die? most athiests I have heard believe that death is it! That does not give you much to look forward to!! I would dread growing old!!!

Now here is the thing, lets say I am wrong. Let's say that you are right, there is no God, no heaven, and no hell. When you die, you die, and that is all. I will not lose anything!!! I will have lived my life full of a hope in an eternal life, but then when I die I will not know that it did not happen! It would be over, the end, oh well!! And yet I still had a wonderful life while I was alive.

Now lets turn the tables and say for a minute that I am right. There is a God, and a heaven and hell. You may live a very fulfilling, happy, wonderful life. But then when you die, what happens? I believe the Bible when it says "narrow is the gate to heaven, but wide is the gate to destruction". If you do not have God in your life, (remember, we're assuming for a moment that there is) then I believe you go to hell.

Now this is why, as God fearing christians, we believe we need to tell everyone we can about Him!!! Not because we think we are better than anyone else (at least we shouldn't!!) but because we do care about our fellow humans! God wants for none to parish, but for all to live with him in eternity!!! And we need to do our part to let people know the Truth!

Sorry for being so long winded!!!!!!!

 

God Bless

dave

 

well said!

[tvashtarkatena]

The universe isn't made of nothing. Nothing in this universe is is a quivering low energy state something. Still, several important mysteries remain. Why did the universe start out in a low entropy state and why does the 2nd law exist? In other words, why does time flow forward? Why did the universe evolved so perfectly into an environment for life and intelligence? Are we just one of many verses; one of the lucky few?

 

These are huge questions, but humanity will probably always face huge questions, and these questions can be faced without bringing an outside entity into the discovery process.

 

The universe is what it is, and it is a fantastic place for the most part far out of scale of our experience. But it just is.

 

I know its hard to comprehend this godless universe. I was a believer for 20 years, so I went through that transformation. It wasn't easy. But I had to do it because I just didn't buy the whole religious story.

 

This means you need to find your own purpose, but in reality, everyone, religious or not, must do that anyway, regardless of whether or not they atribute the signs for action to god or gerbles.

Edited September 11, 2008 by tvashtarkatena

[fear_and_greed]

I think it takes more faith to not believe in God than it does to believe in Him.

I don't understand how people can believe the earth, indeed the whole universe was created out of nothing, by accident. That by some infinitesimal odds the universe came into being from nothing. Then that nothing over billions of years became what we know today. An earth that has just the right amount of oxygen to support life, trees that give off this life giving gas by taking in the co we breath off and converting it. We have a star that just happens to be the exact distance from the earth to support life! Two humans can come together (ok, hahaha) and create a baby that grows inside of it's mothers womb till just the right time! All the electrical impulses in the brain and throughout the nervous system to make your body work, to breath, and the heart to beat. The ability to think (or at least most of us can!)

 

In my opinion, that takes a lot of faith!!! People like odds, talking about "the odds of being struck by lightning", "winning the lottery", "an asteroid striking the earth". What about the odds of all this stuff coming together just so?

 

This page goes into all the odds related to a spontaneous creation.

http://www.earthtraces.com/godsodds.shtml

 

I heard this on the radio and it really stuck with me. I believe in God. I believe Jesus is the son of God. I believe he died on the cross, was buried and on the third day was raised again. I believe he then ascended into heaven to be at the right hand of the father. I believe that through Jesus Christ I can have an eternal life in heaven after I die here. Because of this, I live my life with a hope, a hope of something eternal. Something to actually look forward to after I die! As a non believer, you can not imagine the hope, and the complete joy this gives to those of us who put our trust in God. You may live a good happy life as a non believer, but what about when you die? most athiests I have heard believe that death is it! That does not give you much to look forward to!! I would dread growing old!!!

Now here is the thing, lets say I am wrong. Let's say that you are right, there is no God, no heaven, and no hell. When you die, you die, and that is all. I will not lose anything!!! I will have lived my life full of a hope in an eternal life, but then when I die I will not know that it did not happen! It would be over, the end, oh well!! And yet I still had a wonderful life while I was alive.

Now lets turn the tables and say for a minute that I am right. There is a God, and a heaven and hell. You may live a very fulfilling, happy, wonderful life. But then when you die, what happens? I believe the Bible when it says "narrow is the gate to heaven, but wide is the gate to destruction". If you do not have God in your life, (remember, we're assuming for a moment that there is) then I believe you go to hell.

Now this is why, as God fearing christians, we believe we need to tell everyone we can about Him!!! Not because we think we are better than anyone else (at least we shouldn't!!) but because we do care about our fellow humans! God wants for none to parish, but for all to live with him in eternity!!! And we need to do our part to let people know the Truth!

Sorry for being so long winded!!!!!!!

 

God Bless

dave

 

Dave are you sure you can handle the truth?

The greatest fairy tale ever told is only for the weakminded and lost type who are desperately searching for something to save them from the pain/worry/hopelessness that their life situations

throw them into. "Oh please god save me from (fill in the blank)" seems like such a cop out for not wanting to take responsibility for your own actions.

As far as eternal life goes buddism seems the best way. You get to live many lives and are not under the rules of a omnipotent being, wiling away infinite days surrounded by do-gooding, funless hypocrites.

check out this reincarnation forecast for your next life http://www.reincarnationstation.com/

 

Be seein' ya,

FnG

 

[ivan]

i take comfort in the certainity that, if god does exist, he's as big as a fucking retard as the rest of us

[godskid5]

I also don't understand why it is people feel the need to attack those of us who believe in God. If you want to state what you believe in, great, that is your God given right. You can believe how you choose, and tell us all if you choose. Why is it people must call christians "weak minded" and "lost" on top of all the other horrid stuff that is posted?

 

I know their are people who call themselves "christians" who do the same to non-believers, or anyone who thinks differently (ex: Westboro Baptist Church), but this is not what the Bible teaches us, and anyone who does such while claiming to be a follower of Christ should read His Word a little closer.

 

I respect you all for your beliefs, or in some cases lack of beliefs. I would have no problem climbing with any of you, or being friends and hanging out. If I starting talking to you about Christ, feel free to tell me your not interested, and I will quit. I don't feel the need to be attacked though.

 

So tell me, and this is for those who do attack us verbally (or in this case written-ly) Why the need? Can you not post your views, and just say you don't understand how christians can believe in God, without making it personal?

 

Would you attack someone else with a different belief in the same way? How about homosexuals? Or Buddhists? I don't believe anyone should be put down or attacked because of something they believe in. Why do you feel the need to do so?

[pope]

The universe isn't made of nothing. Nothing in this universe is is a quivering low energy state something. Still, several important mysteries remain. Why did the universe start out in a low entropy state and why does the 2nd law exist? In other words, why does time flow forward? Why did the universe evolved so perfectly into an environment for life and intelligence? Are we just one of many verses; one of the lucky few?

 

These are huge questions, but humanity will probably always face huge questions, and these questions can be faced without bringing an outside entity into the discovery process.

 

The universe is what it is, and it is a fantastic place for the most part far out of scale of our experience. But it just is.

 

I know its hard to comprehend this godless universe. I was a believer for 20 years, so I went through that transformation. It wasn't easy. But I had to do it because I just didn't buy the whole religious story.

 

This means you need to find your own purpose, but in reality, everyone, religious or not, must do that anyway, regardless of whether or not they atribute the signs for action to god or gerbles.

 

You may wish to read The Language of God by Francis S. Collins before announcing the finality of your transformation.

[tvashtarkatena]

Yeah, read the highlights, know the arguments. Sorry, no effect.

[prole]

Hey Christian dudes, which Omen movie do you guys like the best?

Edited September 11, 2008 by prole

[tvashtarkatena]

I just don't have a need to plug God in as a magic term into equations that have yet to be solved or may never be solved. I'm cool with big unanswered questions. Given the inefficient flow of information around the universe, that seems pretty natural and expected to me.

 

There is some inorganic evolutionary driver responsible for an improbable universe so suitable for life. We may never really know what it is, because if it involves multiverses, and it seem like it must, we'll never experience another verse. Oh well.

[Fairweather]

In the underverse, you keep what you kill.

 

[Fairweather]

What Fairweather believes:

 

We are the current result of a universe naturally creating order from randomness. Sentient life is the ultimate expression of this organizing process.

 

or

 

Time is not linear as we perceive it. There is no beginning or end, only an infinite number of instances arranged in no particular order. Every moment has always existed--and will always exist.

 

or

 

There is a God.

 

 

 

[Dechristo]

Not a dispersion, simply, humorous.

God wants for none to parish, ...

[bradleym]

I also don't understand why it is people feel the need to attack those of us who believe in God. If you want to state what you believe in, great, that is your God given right. You can believe how you choose, and tell us all if you choose. Why is it people must call christians "weak minded" and "lost" on top of all the other horrid stuff that is posted?

 

I know their are people who call themselves "christians" who do the same to non-believers, or anyone who thinks differently (ex: Westboro Baptist Church), but this is not what the Bible teaches us, and anyone who does such while claiming to be a follower of Christ should read His Word a little closer.

 

I respect you all for your beliefs, or in some cases lack of beliefs. I would have no problem climbing with any of you, or being friends and hanging out. If I starting talking to you about Christ, feel free to tell me your not interested, and I will quit. I don't feel the need to be attacked though.

 

So tell me, and this is for those who do attack us verbally (or in this case written-ly) Why the need? Can you not post your views, and just say you don't understand how christians can believe in God, without making it personal?

 

Would you attack someone else with a different belief in the same way? How about homosexuals? Or Buddhists? I don't believe anyone should be put down or attacked because of something they believe in. Why do you feel the need to do so?

 

I don't see any need to make it personal either, but humans often become threatened by differences of opinion, belief, etc. Primarily, however, there is a sizable group of Christians who have politicized their religious beliefs in the past 30-40 years, and who have drug us through endless 'culture' wars (we seem to have 'wars' about many things). What you and I may regard as a private matter has been converted to public policy or at least the attempt to make it public policy, and to dictate morality, etc.

 

If, like mccain (in the old days) and others, we'd just keep that to ourselves, regard religious belief as a private matter, and support a public sphere where debate is rational, open and honest, then we'd all be better for it. But that seems like an impossible dream at this point. The public sphere is degraded and degrading, and so much religious-based and wrong-headed claptrap passes for real debate on real issues.

 

This is not to paint all Christians with the same brush. We are all responsible for the current state of affairs, where talking points have more to do with disparaging community organizers or religious hockey moms. There is a guy who works for me who is a very devout Christian, but whose politics are pretty left-leaning, and who keeps his religious and political beliefs separated (though, of course, they color one another). I don't think he is just a small minority either.

 

so, inasmuch as a group within the Christian community have employed their belief system to attract political power and to implement public policy based on an anti-enlightenment and irrational approach, some will eventually grow tired of it and attack back.

[tvashtarkatena]

What Fairweather believes:

 

We are the current result of a universe naturally creating order from randomness. Sentient life is the ultimate expression of this organizing process.

 

There is no current theory that requires order to be created from chaos. The universe has built ordered structures from simpler ones since the Big Bang, but it seems that the repulsive force of dark energy will likely turn it back into a shapeless goo once again.

 

or

Time is not linear as we perceive it. There is no beginning or end, only an infinite number of instances arranged in no particular order. Every moment has always existed--and will always exist.

 

 

Ditto my previous comment. Time in our universe flows in one direction, the direction of increasing entropy. We don't know why, but so far according to our tests, it does. Don't know what you mean by 'linear', because the rate at which time flows varies according to relativity. As for time having a beginning or end, well, or oscillating backwards and fowards, that's an interesting question. Considering the relativity of time, it's possible to imagine verses where entropy decreases and time flows backwards, or time flows through a one of those Krazy Straws. As for every moment always existing; since time is really observational evidence of entropy increasing, what exactly does that mean? That the 2nd Law has some loopholes? Where's the evidence?

 

 

 

[Fairweather]

I recall entropy relating to mass, chemical changes, and temperature, but not, in a direct sense, time. Maybe insomuch as the concept of irreversibility is tied to the 2nd law of thermo? In any event, I'm basing that particular, and admittedly random thought on some possible future scientific rewrite that somehow "skirts" known law--and it's been a while since I studied physics.

 

I don't think that a faith in God and a quest for knowledge using scientific method are mutually exclusive, but throwing up one's arms and using "God" to explain what is not yet known is certainly a cop-out--one that even God would not condone.

[prole]

I don't think that a faith in God and a quest for knowledge using scientific method are mutually exclusive, but throwing up one's arms and using "God" to explain what is not yet known is certainly a cop-out--one that even God would not condone.

 

Do you disagree then with Sarah Palin's description of the Iraq War as a mission from God?

[tvashtarkatena]

God part aside (I've bludgeoned that one to death), I think skirting physical laws and exsisting concepts is fine for thought experiments. I was just curious as to what exactly you meant so I could try to visualize it.

 

Sci Am had a recent article about the relationship between the flow of time and the 2nd law that was pretty interesting.

[Fairweather]

I don't think that a faith in God and a quest for knowledge using scientific method are mutually exclusive, but throwing up one's arms and using "God" to explain what is not yet known is certainly a cop-out--one that even God would not condone.

 

Do you disagree then with Sarah Palin's description of the Iraq War as a mission from God?

 

If she said it: yes. Provide an full, unedited quote from a commonly accepted neutral source.

[mkporwit]

What prole is referring to is a segment in Palin's speech to her old church in Wasilla, I think, which has been posted here before. It got brought up again in her first interview with Charlie Gibson -- you should be able to find that posted somewhere. They play that crucial fragment as part of that interview.

 

She tries to spin it as referring to something Abraham Lincoln said way back when, but frankly does not come across as very convincing when she explains it like that. It seems pretty clear to me from her statement to her church that she views this as a just and holy war in accordance with God's plan.

[marc_leclerc]

It takes more faith to believe that everything in our world came together from complete chaos and rondomness than to believe it was desinged by an intelligent creator. write each letter of the alphabet on small peices of paper and throw them in the air, whats the chance that they will land in perfect alphabetical order? The chance of that actually happening is WAY more likely than our world coming together by random chance... just my 2 cents

[marc_leclerc]

also, if God doesn't exist why do you atheists spend sooo much time and effort finding problems with him? To find a problem with something, it has to exist.