Georgia

[glassgowkiss]

...but Putin said this...

"But the current Georgian rulers who in one hour simply wiped 10 Ossetian villages from the face of the earth, the Georgian rulers which used tanks to run over children and the elderly, which threw civilians into cellars and burnt them -- they (Georgian leaders) are players that have to be protected."

 

 

I believe him.

 

like in Beslan? russians were always the masters of provocation. oddly enough several of the terrorists- hostage takers were killed 1-2 prior in Chechnya. so what gives?

[akhalteke]

Remember, Scott, we're the "real" imperialists, and the "real" terrorists.

 

You are correct dear sir. As Putin stated this very day, the blood is on our hands as we were teh one's who sold weapons to the Georgians...

 

 

Wait. I seem to remember a list of people that Russia sold arms to. I think it was full of dictatorial regimes and terrorist front governments.

 

If you are looking for pure evil, look at Putin. Bush is just a country bumkin fucking shit up. Putin is a real sadist; full of avarice and nationalist agenda.

[akhalteke]

...but Putin said this...

"But the current Georgian rulers who in one hour simply wiped 10 Ossetian villages from the face of the earth, the Georgian rulers which used tanks to run over children and the elderly, which threw civilians into cellars and burnt them -- they (Georgian leaders) are players that have to be protected."

 

 

I believe him.

 

like in Beslan? russians were always the masters of provocation. oddly enough several of the terrorists- hostage takers were killed 1-2 prior in Chechnya. so what gives?

 

Or in the theatre... same shit. I remember that day that all those people died in there and there was so much cover-ups and deceit and outright strong-arming. It was a real eye opener for me.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Remember, Scott, we're the "real" imperialists, and the "real" terrorists.

 

You are correct dear sir. As Putin stated this very day, the blood is on our hands as we were teh one's who sold weapons to the Georgians...

 

 

Wait. I seem to remember a list of people that Russia sold arms to. I think it was full of dictatorial regimes and terrorist front governments.

 

If you are looking for pure evil, look at Putin. Bush is just a country bumkin fucking shit up. Putin is a real sadist; full of avarice and nationalist agenda.

 

Putin only wants to reunite the brother nations of Russia and establish an inseparable bulwark against Western aggression...

 

[akhalteke]

He already tried to do it economically and politically (Ukraine, Lithuania, Byelorus, ect.) I guess when in doubt, use what you know. Seems Putin remembers a lot from his old KGB days.

[glassgowkiss]

Remember, Scott, we're the "real" imperialists, and the "real" terrorists.

 

You are correct dear sir. As Putin stated this very day, the blood is on our hands as we were teh one's who sold weapons to the Georgians...

 

 

Wait. I seem to remember a list of people that Russia sold arms to. I think it was full of dictatorial regimes and terrorist front governments.

 

If you are looking for pure evil, look at Putin. Bush is just a country bumkin fucking shit up. Putin is a real sadist; full of avarice and nationalist agenda.

 

oh, for once i hate to say, but i agree. however i am furious at this administration and particularly Rice (resigning would be nice) for letting things get so fucked up. This fuck up will make iraq look like peanuts in a year or two. soviets (still call them that) will not stop there, they will continue. i bet Baltic states are their next target.

[akhalteke]

I wouldn't doubt it. Re-join Kaliningrad and have the trade route to the West.

[glassgowkiss]

I wouldn't doubt it. Re-join Kaliningrad and have the trade route to the West.

i doubt they are interested in tradining with the west. i think what they are interested in is a common border with germany via poland, so their tanks and armored vehicles can move swiftly through the plains of western europe (something Suvorov stated long time ago)

[kevbone]

Anybody been climbing lately?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Anybody been climbing lately?

 

yes, there's a TR on the Georgian Kavkaz

[glassgowkiss]

Anybody been climbing lately?

 

yeah, your mom.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

This fuck up will make iraq look like peanuts in a year or two. soviets (still call them that) will not stop there, they will continue. i bet Baltic states are their next target.

 

You may be right, GGK, in your fears of escalation. However, Ukraine will be the first to make a play in this:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/10/AR2008081000491.html

[akhalteke]

This is really some history in the making. It will go one of two ways:

 

1) Soviet-style imperialism

 

2) The begining of the first true-freedom for the post Soviet bloc countries.

 

Moscow has meddled for too long in the affairs of its former captives. I truly hope that this will be the breaking point for solidarity against Russia and a move toward Democracy and freedom in the entire area.

[akhalteke]

Anybody been climbing lately?

 

You ever read a newspaper?

[akhalteke]

...and what does obama have to say? "I am on vacation, now is the time for Georgia and Russia to strive for peace." WTF is that vague-ass shit. He missed a prime time to show he has the fucking brass ones to run a nation at war.

 

Either he didn't have the balls, the information or the ability to deal with this situation. He needs to step the fuck up and make some decisions. This is not the time for a non-leader to take over the white house.

[akhalteke]

this is not that complicated. system used from the beginning of soviet union. create a regional conflict and enter a pace keepers.

today on NPR there was an interview with russian ambassador to the UN. he claimed russia was not going to invade Georgia. now this in Georgia

looking at the larger scale there were several articles in russian media in the past several month, claiming oppression of russian minorities in the Baltic States. where do you think the russian troops will go next.

Israeli/Palestine issue is also not that complicated. but it is a different issue from one we discuss here.

 

Vilnius seems to agree with you; as well as the entire Baltic region and Ukraine.

[glassgowkiss]

...and what does obama have to say? "I am on vacation, now is the time for Georgia and Russia to strive for peace." WTF is that vague-ass shit. He missed a prime time to show he has the fucking brass ones to run a nation at war.

 

Either he didn't have the balls, the information or the ability to deal with this situation. He needs to step the fuck up and make some decisions. This is not the time for a non-leader to take over the white house.

 

i kind of agree. however we should demand from thecurrent administration to fulfill their duties or step aside. Obama or McCain are just two candidates running for the office. GWB is in this office right now. the ball is in his corner and he is seriously lacking balls on this one imo.

McCain scored some points with me and i agree Obama didn't respond the right way. however these two man are not the decision makers. current president is.

i think this issue is beyond this election and let's hope is dealt with in such manner.

[Off_White]

This is not the time for a non-leader to take over the white house.

 

But you think it's time for doofus who can't remember the difference between a shiite or a sunni to be in charge? I'd guess McCain is probably outraged that Russia is invading one of our southern states, and thinks Ossetia is down around Tupelo.

 

 

[akhalteke]

I think you are reading a bit into my politics. I truly believe that the uniting of the former Soviet-bloc countries might be enough to dissuade Russia from continuing with this act of war. Russia has been vying for the control over these nations since they lost them 17 years ago. They cannot try taking Lithuania, Estonia ect. without Europe taking action.

 

As far as Bush, he has taken a poisition on the matter and a firm one. He is otherwise engaged and cannot take on Russia alone. If there were to be action, it would have to be a unilateral action from the West and that will not come from Bush with his foreign approval ratings.

 

It will have to come from a seemingly non-military nation to garnish ful support in undertaking such an action.

 

Obama on the other hand tip-toed the subject like a featherweight fighting hollyfield. Positions must be made and made known quickly.

[akhalteke]

Anybody been climbing lately?

 

You ever read a newspaper?

 

...because you taking a 3' whipper at beacon is Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more important than a sovereign nation (who happens to be our ally) getting invaded and consequently opening up the possibility of starting a global conflict.

 

You are so right. What were we thinking?

[Off_White]

I think you are reading a bit into my politics.

 

Nah, I think you were just drifting and I was following your pitch.

 

I don't think you and I are in substantial disagreement about the importance of the former republics or Russia's intentions. I think the EU needs to step up to the plate, Georgia is going to wind up in their sphere of influence and certainly dreams of membership, and the US needs to back up the EU. Our hands are a little full right now, but this is a very important situation. Economic strangulation via oil & gas pricing isn't bringing Georgia to heel so the Bear is kicking it up a notch to see how that flies.

 

Not that I'm all that well informed, most of my knowledge comes from the Georgia chapter of Parag Khanna's book "The Second World." Links to other analysis ya'll might be aware of would be appreciated.

[akhalteke]

Looks like Russia is backing down (skeptical). Medvedev just ordered end of operation.

[akhalteke]

If you want to see the extent of the propaganda in Russia going on, check out pravda.ru (there is english as well). They are really stepping it up.

[akhalteke]

These are all headlines in Russia's national newspaper:

 

 

Russia: Again Savior of Peace and Life

 

Russia may eventually retrieve its military presence in Cuba and Vietnam

 

Estonia torments ethnic Russians with rotten food

 

NPR: National Public Radio or Nothing Positive about Russia?

 

Bring in the Clowns!

 

The two-faced, underhanded foreign policy of Georgia

[akhalteke]

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Tuesday that Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili should leave office and that Georgian troops should stay out of South Ossetia permanently.

 

Moscow will not talk to Saakashvili, Lavrov said; the best thing for Saakashvili to do "would be to step down."

 

No...They aren't seeking a regime change at all. I am sure this wasn't a ploy to put a Moscow-puppet leader in Georgia. They tried it with politics in Lithuania, they tried it with poison in Ukraine and now it is war in Georgia. I hate to think of what Russia will do to try and sway Eastern Germany back.