Behold: National Health Care

[rob]

Well, don't get me started on taxation. Can't the government make it's own way? Sheesh. Fucking libtard.

 

VOTE LIBERTARIAN!

[Hugh Conway]

LIBERTARIAN!

 

the "shoot the moon" theory of government incompetence?

[rob]

LIBERTARIAN!

 

the "shoot the moon" theory of government incompetence?

 

If you're gonna fuck things up, do it right!

[glassgowkiss]

A more enlightened and fair system for all...

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7542718.stm

 

Wow, GREAT POINT!

 

You know who has really bad roads? Bolivia. That's just proof that WE SHOULDN'T HAVE ROADS!

 

I have friends who work and live in Sweden, and have been for several years now. Their comments on the socialized health care system there is a mixed bag.

 

If we are going to emulate (and talk up how great) other socialized health care systems, we need to realistically evaluate them - not paint a one-sided, idealized view of them.

for once i have to agree with you. but also let's admit the system we see right now sucks and needs to be changed.

i also want to add- we don't have just health care crisis- it's health crisis. there is no system that can support 70% of population being FAT!

[mattp]

If we are going to emulate (and talk up how great) other socialized health care systems, we need to realistically evaluate them - not paint a one-sided, idealized view of them.

 

This is a perfect example of thoughtless sloganeering. We're not talking about adopting "socialized healthcare" in the U.S. Maybe we should, but we are not. Not long ago, the French system was mentioned as a potential model but I don't remember anybody saying they want to adopt the system they have in Sweden.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

i also want to add- we don't have just health care crisis- it's health crisis. there is no system that can support 70% of population being FAT!

 

and for once I agree with you.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

If we are going to emulate (and talk up how great) other socialized health care systems, we need to realistically evaluate them - not paint a one-sided, idealized view of them.

 

This is a perfect example of thoughtless sloganeering. We're not talking about adopting "socialized healthcare" in the U.S. Maybe we should, but we are not. Not long ago, the French system was mentioned as a potential model but I don't remember anybody saying they want to adopt the system they have in Sweden.

 

"thoughtless sloganeering" - piss off, dude.

 

[mattp]

"thoughtless sloganeering" - piss off, dude.

 

Just to be clear: what is "socialized health care?" Who has recently proposed it for the U.S.? Answer that and then maybe I'll piss off.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

"thoughtless sloganeering" - piss off, dude.

 

Just to be clear: what is "socialized medicine?" Who has recently proposed it for the U.S.?

 

Every participant in this discussion has a different idea of what "needs to be done". Look at my response to TREETOAD and Jim's response. I can guarantee that some of the participants have in mind just exactly the type of system that they have in Sweden.

 

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

If you're gonna fuck things up, do it right!

 

this is America, we'll fuck that up to

[mattp]

Weak. Maybe you should piss off.

[rob]

I can guarantee that some of the participants have in mind just exactly the type of system that they have in Sweden.

 

 

 

That depends. Are swedish massages included in the Swedish health care system? 8D

[glassgowkiss]

2 more things- roaches and rats in a hospital- bfd- go to any hospital in NYC and see if they aren't there as well. not to mention rate of infections in the hospitals.

second is a huge fuck lie spread by insurance companies, that by switching to a different insurance model you would not be able to see a practitioner of your choice. newsflash- you can't any way, unless they are contracted with your insurance company!

the most fair system would be to pay per pound of body weight!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Weak.

 

fits you well

[Hugh Conway]

the most fair system would be to pay per pound of body weight!

 

subsidize anorexia?

[mattp]

Weak.

 

fits you well

 

Damn. You really got me there. Your rhetorical skills are awesome, dude!

[kevbone]

2 more things- roaches and rats in a hospital- bfd- go to any hospital in NYC and see if they aren't there as well. not to mention rate of infections in the hospitals.

second is a huge fuck lie spread by insurance companies, that by switching to a different insurance model you would not be able to see a practitioner of your choice. newsflash- you can't any way, unless they are contracted with your insurance company!

the most fair system would be to pay per pound of body weight!

 

 

[glassgowkiss]

healthcare reform should start with lowering tuition for med students and with increase in pay for residents. it's ridiculous to leave school with 200-250k in a hole.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

healthcare reform should start with lowering tuition for med students and with increase in pay for residents. it's ridiculous to leave school with 200-250k in a hole.

 

and elimination of frivolous lawsuits and the need for overpriced malpractice insurance

[glassgowkiss]

healthcare reform should start with lowering tuition for med students and with increase in pay for residents. it's ridiculous to leave school with 200-250k in a hole.

 

and elimination of frivolous lawsuits and the need for overpriced malpractice insurance

now this is a load of shit. how about forcing insurance companies to pay within 30 days of billing for the service.

and introducing a cost control. now can you explain why an ER doc get 450 bucs extra for working a night shift (St Joseph's B-ham)? and who ends up paying for it down the road? now i understand why putting 3 stitches in my foot costs $375!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

healthcare reform should start with lowering tuition for med students and with increase in pay for residents. it's ridiculous to leave school with 200-250k in a hole.

 

and elimination of frivolous lawsuits and the need for overpriced malpractice insurance

now this is a load of shit. how about forcing insurance companies to pay within 30 days of billing for the service.

and introducing a cost control. now can you explain why an ER doc get 450 bucs extra for working a night shift (St Joseph's B-ham)? and who ends up paying for it down the road? now i understand why putting 3 stitches in my foot costs $375!

 

some people don't pay up, and they charge others to make up the difference.

 

if you think doctors and nurses are rich bastards living it up, you are in fantasy land

 

[glassgowkiss]

now can you logically explain to me a 450 bucs difference? don't forget that most of people who suffer a major illness go bankrupt even with insurance. fantasy land is where you live, since you are claiming the system works.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

now can you logically explain to me a 450 bucs difference? don't forget that most of people who suffer a major illness go bankrupt even with insurance. fantasy land is where you live, since you are claiming the system works.

 

Wow! Another MattP! I'm "claiming it works". You guys are laughable.

 

[mattp]

and elimination of frivolous lawsuits and the need for overpriced malpractice insurance

now this is a load of shit.

 

Yup. More thoughtless sloganeering. With the exception of a few high risk specialties such as OB, the cost of medical malpractice insurance is a tiny amount of the cost of running a medical practice and in fact even including these specialties, medical malpractice claims are a tiny amount of overall healthcare costs. Arguments about "frivolous lawsuits" are industry based hype, largely driven by insurance companies' greed. And the cost of medical malpractice insurance? It has been shown more closely related to what is happening in the bond market than to the rate of actual claims.

[kevbone]

What ever KKK....if you are defending it....you are "claiming it works".