The Obama Mama 2

[akhalteke]

Michelle

[tvashtarkatena]

She's seems to be a pretty kick ass woman. Smart, hot, and feisty, rather than the standard 1st lady plasticine window dressing.

 

One way to judge how a president will manage the country is how well they manage their campaigns. Enough said there; Obama is crushing McCain by any measure in that department. McCain can't seem to manage his way out of a paper bag, but then again, he's always had the reputation of shooting from the hip and hoping for the best.

 

Somehow, after 8 years of kind of leadership, I think it might be time for someone who plans and organizes for success every now and then.

[akhalteke]

I just don't like the way that Michelle is so down on the US. It is hard to believe that it isn't a houshold sentiment.

[minx]

i am not voting for the first lady.

[akhalteke]

Granted, but the attitude of the candidate's wives can reflect a lot about the sentiments in their respective houses.

 

Obamas: Hate America

 

McCains: Have a stephford-esque robotic "hot-mom" that negate the presence of nagging within a marriage

[minx]

and i'm not voting for the household. it'd be nice to think that either of these men had a pair and could make their own minds up. then again they are men

[tvashtarkatena]

I just don't like the way that Michelle is so down on the US. It is hard to believe that it isn't a houshold sentiment.

 

We're discussing the first lady. We don't care who you vote for Minx.

 

She's not down on America. She's willing to be the first lady, for Christ sakes, which, in many ways, must suck goat balls. Critical of America? Given how we've screwed the pooch lately, that's entirely appropriate. If you've got a friend with a coke habit, and you call them on it, what, are you down on your friend? Come on.

 

It's just another bullshit media campaign based on one quote taken out of context. You of all people should know better than to fall for that shite...particularly after our embed discussion.

 

The campaigns are going to go over every word uttered from every person on the other side looking for the next big dig, then try to blow it up into some 'Big Message'. Standard campaign procedure.

[akhalteke]

I just see anti-american sentiments from one camp and general apathy from the other. I think to ignore every diagnostic tool in making one's decision is fool hearty.

[tvashtarkatena]

Again, you're consuming what the opposing campaigns and cat's asshole-like media choose for you to consume.

 

Anti-Americanism is a myth. Being opposed to certain policies when they've produced fucked results is healthy and good for the country, which seems to be pro-American to me.

 

OK, Minx, your turn to tell us men what men are all about again.

[akhalteke]

For example, in February, as her husband’s campaign was catching fire, she said: “For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country, because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback.” Some Americans bristle at the implication that the only worthwhile thing any of them has done in the past quarter-century is to back Mr Obama.

 

Mrs Obama’s speeches rarely accentuate the positive. America, to her, is a “downright mean” country where families struggle to buy food, where mothers are terrified of being fired if they get pregnant and where “life for regular folks has gotten worse over the course of my lifetime”. But she was born in 1964, when Americans lived shorter, poorer lives and southern blacks couldn’t vote. Whereas her husband is magically skilled at not giving offence, Mrs Obama can be a blunt instrument. “Don’t go into corporate America,” she urges young people, denigrating what most Americans do for a living and biting the hand that pays for all the public programmes she favours. “Barack Obama will require you to work,” she says. “He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation…Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed.” Some people would rather decide for themselves how to live their lives.

 

In what way could quotes like these be out of context? Anti-Americanism is not a myth. We have seen this myth kill thousands of people in the relative present.

[akhalteke]

Here's some more.

[tvashtarkatena]

I meant anti-Americanism amongst Americans, and I think you knew that. You're clearly not a dumbshit, so no more byes for misunderstanding from me.

[minx]

tvash, i don't need to wait in turn to say that.

 

i realize that you're discussing the first lady but it was in at least one post being discussed in the context of the election. again, i'm not voting for first lady.

 

and as shocking as this may be, i agree w/you regarding Mrs O's stances. I don't think its unamerican to have views that don't support the status quo

[Doug]

Every country, every administration has its share of folly. While Michelle Obama's communication style may leave something to be desired, I believe the point she's trying to make is that in many ways the infrastructure and values in our country have taken a nose dive. I don't think stating the point should be viewed as anti-american. Just because you disagree with what's going on in your nation doesn't make you anti-american. I mean, McCain recently said that spending has gotten out of hand; does that make him anti-american?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I just see anti-american sentiments from one camp and general apathy from the other. I think to ignore every diagnostic tool in making one's decision is fool hearty.

 

You'll never convince the lefties of this country that Michelle's anti-American statements are wrong or in any way undesirable. They are exactly the positions our own 5th-column holds w/r/t this country.

 

[Jim]

I just see anti-american sentiments from one camp and general apathy from the other. I think to ignore every diagnostic tool in making one's decision is fool hearty.

 

Oh sweet Jesus. Here we go again. This is the kind of stuff you're going to hear once the GOP slime machine picks up steam after the convention. Let's start the debate about who's label pin is bigger already.

 

She, like a majority of Americans, think we can do better than the slime ball politics and world strategy mis-steps that have dominate the past 8 years.

 

Rather than talk about any substantial issues facing the county lets talk about Obama's bitter wife. Unbelieveable. But sadly predictable.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I just see anti-american sentiments from one camp and general apathy from the other. I think to ignore every diagnostic tool in making one's decision is fool hearty.

 

Oh sweet Jesus. Here we go again. This is the kind of stuff you're going to hear once the GOP slime machine picks up steam after the convention. Let's start the debate about who's label pin is bigger already.

 

She, like a majority of Americans, think we can do better than the slime ball politics and world strategy mis-steps that have dominate the past 8 years.

 

Rather than talk about any substantial issues facing the county lets talk about Obama's bitter wife. Unbelieveable. But sadly predictable.

 

umm, just look at the comments on this forum about McCain and his wife. look in the mirror and examine the log in your eye, buddy.

[rob]

I guess when you can't successfully argue against a candidate's positions, you can always resort to calling him unamerican.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I guess when you can't successfully argue against a candidate's positions, you can always resort to calling him unamerican.

 

 

or mocking his age

[rob]

old people are unamerican.

[akhalteke]

I meant anti-Americanism amongst Americans, and I think you knew that. You're clearly not a dumbshit, so no more byes for misunderstanding from me.

 

McVeigh. That was what I was thinking.

 

Edit: Though the misleading post was intentional.

[jjd]

Saying that you're an American is Anti-American

[tvashtarkatena]

McVeigh was certainly not anti-America; he was anti-government. Hell, I'm anti-this-administration, big time.

 

It seems that he got his anti-government start when ordered to execute prisoners of war during Gulf 1: understandable IMO. WACO et all seemed to tip him over the edge. I wasn't too comfortable with the way WACO was handled myself, frankly. From WIKI, to be treated, as always, with a grain of salt.

 

"Motivations for the bombing

 

McVeigh claimed that the bombing was revenge for "what the U.S. government did at Waco and Ruby Ridge."[25] McVeigh visited Waco during the standoff, where he spoke to a news reporter about his anger over what was happening there.[26]

 

McVeigh frequently quoted and alluded to the white supremacist novel The Turner Diaries. It described acts of terrorism similar to what he did. McVeigh openly rejected the book's racism and homophobia;[citation needed] he claimed to appreciate its interest in firearms. Photocopies of pages sixty-one and sixty-two of The Turner Diaries were found in an envelope inside McVeigh's car. These pages depicted a fictitious mortar attack upon the U.S. Capitol in Washington.[27]

 

In interviews before his execution, documented in American Terrorist, McVeigh stated he decapitated an Iraqi soldier with cannon fire on his first day in the war and celebrated. But he said he later was shocked to be ordered to execute surrendering prisoners, and to see carnage on the road leaving Kuwait City after U.S. troops routed the Iraqi army. In interviews following the Oklahoma City bombing, McVeigh said he began harboring anti-government feelings during the Gulf War.[28]"

 

 

[akhalteke]

This seems damngerously like semantics at this point. I am a big advocate of actions speaking louder than words. If he would have targeted the JCS or the president, then we might be talking.

Edited July 9, 2008 by akhalteke

[jjd]

I would recommend reading "Cold Zero" for an alternative view (from an HRT member) of what happened at Waco and at Ruby Ridge.

 

The "I was ordered to kill surrendering people so I went and killed other innocent people" justification is more than a little tortured.