Idiocracy

[olyclimber]

I believe she is the archetype Obama supporter. Say hi to Alec Baldwin and Robert Redford for me! Oh...wait...they're still here...damn!!

 

What about Deniro?

 

 

44do49DDZ8U

[prole]

The great thing about America is that even a dim bulb like that woman can make a go of it. There ya go.

 

Did you mean German Chancellor, Angela Merkel?

 

 

Please play again.

[rob]

he looks like he wants to clear her brush

[olyclimber]

actually he is farting.

[prole]

His ear is decidedly elven.

[JayB]

I'm beginning to seriously consider emigration. Sorry Obama. Coming across things like this on an almost daily basis is making the decision easier.

 

"The man who has gone through a college or university easily becomes psychically unemployable in manual occupations without necessarily acquiring employability in, say, professional work."

 

-JS

[prole]

Spoken like a true technocrat. The rather grim dystopia of managers, cubicle dwellers, and other assorted lever-pullers the quote conjures speaks perfectly to an institution and a culture that has left any of humanity's higher aspirations behind, and replaced them with the single, dull calculus of the cash-nexus. Art majors lament.

[JayB]

"There are no doubt some things available to the modern workman that Louis XIV himself would have been delighted to have—modern dentistry for instance. On the whole, however, a budget on that level had little that really mattered to gain from capitalist achievement. Even speed of traveling may be assumed to have been a minor consideration for so very dignified a gentleman. Electric lighting is no great boon to anyone who has enough money to buy a sufficient number of candles and to pay servants to attend them. It is the cheap cloth, the cheap cotton and rayon fabric, boots, motorcars and so on that are the typical achievements of capitalist production, and not as rule improvements that would mean much to the rich man. Queen Elizabeth owned silk stockings. The capitalist achievement does not typically consist in providing more silk stockings for queens but in bringing them within reach of factory girls in return for steadily decreasing amounts of effort."

 

Same as above.

[prole]

There is nothing particularly, exceptionally American about what you're saying. No shiny nickel for you. Oh, and I don't think you have to convince anyone here of the benefits of widespread light-bulb use. You already covered that in your monograph on meat refrigeration. Capitalism turned the corner quite long ago from the manufacture of goods to meet human needs toward manufacturing desires for unnecessary, wasteful, mindless crap.

[olyclimber]

You both are far too educated and thus will never find happiness in life.

[prole]

You both are far too educated and thus will never find happiness in life.

 

The excellent Joseph Shumpeter quote above speaks to this directly and is worth quoting at length:

 

The man who has gone through a college or university easily becames psychically unemployable in manual occupations without necessarily acquiring employability in, say, professional work. His failure to do so may be due either to lack of natural abilities - perfectly compatible with passing academic tests - or to inadequate teaching; and both cases will, absolutely and relatively, occur more frequently as ever larger numbers are drafted into higher education and as the required amounts of teaching increases irrespective of how many teachers and scholars nature chooses to turn out …

 

All those who are unemployed or unsatisfactorily employed or unemployable drift into the vocations in which standards are least definite or in which aptitudes and acquirements of a different order count. They swell the host of intellectuals in the strict sense of the term whose numbers hence increase disproportionately. They enter it in a thoroughly discontented frame of mind. Discontentment breeds resentment. And it often rationalises itself into that social criticism which … is … the intellectual spectator’s typical attitude towards men, classes and institutions especially in a rationalist and utilitarian civilisation. ---from Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy

 

The discontentment can be somewhat managed by gutting the "liberal arts", replacing them with technocratic/management education, lowering the life expectations of those who stubbornly refuse to fit the mold, and pump Soma into the recalcitrant.

[rob]

So let me ask, where would you emmigrate to? Where is this wonderful land that lacks idiots and capitalism? Do they have oompa loompas there?

[JayB]

Spoken like a true technocrat. The rather grim dystopia of managers, cubicle dwellers, and other assorted lever-pullers the quote conjures speaks perfectly to an institution and a culture that has left any of humanity's higher aspirations behind, and replaced them with the single, dull calculus of the cash-nexus. Art majors lament.

 

Rather odd to hear such a lament from the "one true friend of the working man on cc.com." The overwhelming majority of the resources and effort expended in a market economy are dedicated to providing the average citizen the goods and services that they want at the lowest possible price.

 

The culture that you disdain and the purchases that occur within it are the product of choices that reflect the true motivations, wants, and desires of the average worker. The irony here is that your critiques resemble nothing more closely than those first articulated by the European artistocrats sneering at the mass-society growing across the Atlantic in the 19th century. Where there are exceptions to the tendency of the masses to shape our society, they are primarily due to the efforts and patronage of an elite that owes its position to capitalism rather than hereditary rule.

 

How much time have you ever spent on a shop floor, production line, or job-site, btw? I'd estimate that I spent at least 3,000 hours working landscaping, production, and light assembly jobs between the start of high-school and the end of college. If there'd been a vote between watching NASCAR on the big screen while chugging down Bud-lights over a bowl of hot-wings at Hooters, and sipping chardonay while contemplating late 19th century American portraiture at a seminar hosted by a local art-museum -I hate to break this to you...but - Rembrandt Peale would have lost out to Dale Earnhardt every_single_time.

 

 

[StevenSeagal]

To say nothing of the positive or negative aspects of living in American culture, one thing that is overwhelmingly telling about American culture is the pervasively ignorant attitude that living in any other country would be absolutely miserable by comparison to living here; moreover, that the subjects in those countries either a) Are miserable and wished they lived here, or b) if they profess to be content in their lives, they are just blissfully ignorant of what they are missing by not living here. Anyone who has traveled much, and while doing so has paid the slightest interest to the lives of the people they've encountered, can not possibly hold such a view as binding and all encompassing.

 

No one can deny that the standard of living and opportunies that exist in the US are generous by any measure. Yet I sympathize heavily with what Prole is driving at, which is that the standard of living here is also producing a lazy, bored, distracted culture that has lost the ability to distinguish between need and want, and which also has no real appreciation of the standard of living and opportunities it enjoys, because it's gotten to where "suffering" in this culture means you can't afford to upgrade your ipod to the 160GB model instead of the Nano. You can trumpet the positivity of free market capitalism all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the hyper-consumerist culture it has produced here is one that is shallow, escapist, distracted, and self-absorbed.

 

And you wonder why "family values" have faded?

[JayB]

There is nothing particularly, exceptionally American about what you're saying. No shiny nickel for you. Oh, and I don't think you have to convince anyone here of the benefits of widespread light-bulb use. You already covered that in your monograph on meat refrigeration. Capitalism turned the corner quite long ago from the manufacture of goods to meet human needs toward manufacturing desires for unnecessary, wasteful, mindless crap.

 

And who is to blame for this, kemosabe? See above.

 

Wasn't a problem when the landed aristocracy provided the only effective demand for many goods and services, was it?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

To say nothing of the positive or negative aspects of living in American culture, one thing that is overwhelmingly telling about American culture is the pervasively ignorant attitude that living in any other country would be absolutely miserable by comparison to living here; moreover, that the subjects in those countries either a) Are miserable and wished they lived here, or b) if they profess to be content in their lives, they are just blissfully ignorant of what they are missing by not living here. Anyone who has traveled much, and while doing so has paid the slightest interest to the lives of the people they've encountered, can not possibly hold such a view as binding and all encompassing.

 

No one can deny that the standard of living and opportunies that exist in the US are generous by any measure. Yet I sympathize heavily with what Prole is driving at, which is that the standard of living here is also producing a lazy, bored, distracted culture that has lost the ability to distinguish between need and want, and which also has no real appreciation of the standard of living and opportunities it enjoys, because it's gotten to where "suffering" in this culture means you can't afford to upgrade your ipod to the 160GB model instead of the Nano. You can trumpet the positivity of free market capitalism all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the hyper-consumerist culture it has produced here is one that is shallow, escapist, distracted, and self-absorbed.

 

And you wonder why "family values" have faded?

 

and of course you exclude yourself from this milieu, having transcended it with you revelations and awareness?

[JayB]

To say nothing of the positive or negative aspects of living in American culture, one thing that is overwhelmingly telling about American culture is the pervasively ignorant attitude that living in any other country would be absolutely miserable by comparison to living here; moreover, that the subjects in those countries either a) Are miserable and wished they lived here, or b) if they profess to be content in their lives, they are just blissfully ignorant of what they are missing by not living here. Anyone who has traveled much, and while doing so has paid the slightest interest to the lives of the people they've encountered, can not possibly hold such a view as binding and all encompassing.

 

No one can deny that the standard of living and opportunies that exist in the US are generous by any measure. Yet I sympathize heavily with what Prole is driving at, which is that the standard of living here is also producing a lazy, bored, distracted culture that has lost the ability to distinguish between need and want, and which also has no real appreciation of the standard of living and opportunities it enjoys, because it's gotten to where "suffering" in this culture means you can't afford to upgrade your ipod to the 160GB model instead of the Nano. You can trumpet the positivity of free market capitalism all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the hyper-consumerist culture it has produced here is one that is shallow, escapist, distracted, and self-absorbed.

 

And you wonder why "family values" have faded?

 

Again - who gets the blame for this? There are only so many capitalist titans in our society, their wants are limited, and their aggregate demand for goods and services are quite limited relative to that generated by the sum of the average workers. To cap the irony, most of them have made their fortunes by catering to the wants and desires of the NASCAR or McMansion sets more efficiently than any other participant in the marketplace.

 

You can blame them for the gaudy fixtures in their Hamptons beach retreat, but not the Velvet Elvis poster above the Lazy-Boy recliner anchored in front of the flat-screen showing the latest UFC fight.

 

 

[StevenSeagal]

To say nothing of the positive or negative aspects of living in American culture, one thing that is overwhelmingly telling about American culture is the pervasively ignorant attitude that living in any other country would be absolutely miserable by comparison to living here; moreover, that the subjects in those countries either a) Are miserable and wished they lived here, or b) if they profess to be content in their lives, they are just blissfully ignorant of what they are missing by not living here. Anyone who has traveled much, and while doing so has paid the slightest interest to the lives of the people they've encountered, can not possibly hold such a view as binding and all encompassing.

 

No one can deny that the standard of living and opportunies that exist in the US are generous by any measure. Yet I sympathize heavily with what Prole is driving at, which is that the standard of living here is also producing a lazy, bored, distracted culture that has lost the ability to distinguish between need and want, and which also has no real appreciation of the standard of living and opportunities it enjoys, because it's gotten to where "suffering" in this culture means you can't afford to upgrade your ipod to the 160GB model instead of the Nano. You can trumpet the positivity of free market capitalism all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the hyper-consumerist culture it has produced here is one that is shallow, escapist, distracted, and self-absorbed.

 

And you wonder why "family values" have faded?

 

and of course you exclude yourself from this milieu, having transcended it with you revelations and awareness?

 

Exactly where did I exclude myself?

 

I assume, then, by your tone, that you completely disagree with what was stated above? Or it disturbed you, so you choose to attack the speaker instead of addressing the points?

 

 

[olyclimber]

Steven, why do you and Michelle Obama hate America so much?

[JayB]

To say nothing of the positive or negative aspects of living in American culture, one thing that is overwhelmingly telling about American culture is the pervasively ignorant attitude that living in any other country would be absolutely miserable by comparison to living here; moreover, that the subjects in those countries either a) Are miserable and wished they lived here, or b) if they profess to be content in their lives, they are just blissfully ignorant of what they are missing by not living here. Anyone who has traveled much, and while doing so has paid the slightest interest to the lives of the people they've encountered, can not possibly hold such a view as binding and all encompassing.

 

No one can deny that the standard of living and opportunies that exist in the US are generous by any measure. Yet I sympathize heavily with what Prole is driving at, which is that the standard of living here is also producing a lazy, bored, distracted culture that has lost the ability to distinguish between need and want, and which also has no real appreciation of the standard of living and opportunities it enjoys, because it's gotten to where "suffering" in this culture means you can't afford to upgrade your ipod to the 160GB model instead of the Nano. You can trumpet the positivity of free market capitalism all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the hyper-consumerist culture it has produced here is one that is shallow, escapist, distracted, and self-absorbed.

 

And you wonder why "family values" have faded?

 

and of course you exclude yourself from this milieu, having transcended it with you revelations and awareness?

 

Exactly where did I exclude myself?

 

I assume, then, by your tone, that you completely disagree with what was stated above? Or it disturbed you, so you choose to attack the speaker instead of addressing the points?

 

 

You must have read DeTocqueville's "Democracy in America," correct?

 

The aristocratic critiques and anxieties that he articulated (along with the positive comments) when surveying America in the mid-nineteenth century are more or less exactly in line with your comments, or at least substantially similar to them.

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Exactly where did I exclude myself?

 

Good.

 

I assume, then, by your tone, that you completely disagree with what was stated above? Or it disturbed you, so you choose to attack the speaker instead of addressing the points?

 

 

Actually, I'm just sick of all the negativity and self-hatred. Americans are fat, lazy, blah blah blah.

 

 

[olyclimber]

Nothing wrong with self-criticism. If you want unabashed optimism, sign up for some Obamania.

[JayB]

To say nothing of the positive or negative aspects of living in American culture, one thing that is overwhelmingly telling about American culture is the pervasively ignorant attitude that living in any other country would be absolutely miserable by comparison to living here; moreover, that the subjects in those countries either a) Are miserable and wished they lived here, or b) if they profess to be content in their lives, they are just blissfully ignorant of what they are missing by not living here. Anyone who has traveled much, and while doing so has paid the slightest interest to the lives of the people they've encountered, can not possibly hold such a view as binding and all encompassing.

 

No one can deny that the standard of living and opportunies that exist in the US are generous by any measure. Yet I sympathize heavily with what Prole is driving at, which is that the standard of living here is also producing a lazy, bored, distracted culture that has lost the ability to distinguish between need and want, and which also has no real appreciation of the standard of living and opportunities it enjoys, because it's gotten to where "suffering" in this culture means you can't afford to upgrade your ipod to the 160GB model instead of the Nano. You can trumpet the positivity of free market capitalism all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the hyper-consumerist culture it has produced here is one that is shallow, escapist, distracted, and self-absorbed.

 

And you wonder why "family values" have faded?

 

and of course you exclude yourself from this milieu, having transcended it with you revelations and awareness?

 

Exactly where did I exclude myself?

 

I assume, then, by your tone, that you completely disagree with what was stated above? Or it disturbed you, so you choose to attack the speaker instead of addressing the points?

 

 

 

I should also add that you will probably enjoy David Foster Wallace's "Infinite Jest," which is a long and hilarious meditation on the anxieties that you expressed in your post.

 

I read the book 10 years ago, and it seems kind of prophetic in hindsight.

[builder206]

For the last two years, my boss has been a French engineer. He first came to the U.S. 6 years ago to work on a job in PDX. He had previously worked on projects in St. Petersburg (Russia) and in Malaysia. He is not only highly educated but possesses that ease and superiority of achievement characteristic of people who are well-suited to their position. Very sharp guy. He has a super-normal family consisting of a friendly and kind wife and two warmly-loved children who are always pleasant and happy.

 

At the time I first met him, a third party asked him what he thought of American and did he like it here? Much to my surprise, without hesitation he said he likes America very much and he hopes to settle in here and make his life in the U.S.

 

Surprised to hear this, I blurted out, “What do you like about America?” In response, again without hesitation, he said, “The opportunity. In France, you are bound up in pigeonholes and stratified. Here, a person can go their own way and succeed as they wish.”

 

Much later he told me that he was raised in a house in Brittany that has been in his family for six generations. I bet his family’s DNA goes back centuries in that area. The other day I referred to our meeting conversation 2 years ago and asked him, What about France? He answered that he will be happy to go back for a couple weeks each year, that will be enough France for him and his wife. He is restoring a Triumph Spitfire and asks for explanations when others in the office talk about football.

Edited February 20, 2008 by builder206

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Nothing wrong with self-criticism. If you want unabashed optimism, sign up for some Obamania.

 

Some balance - positive vibes would be nice.

 

Just like you get sick of haters on your baseball thread, so does endless America bashing get tiresome.