Cpt.Caveman Posted July 5, 2001 Posted July 5, 2001 http://www.rockandice.com/index.phtml?section=news_show&news_id=86 http://www.rockandice.com/index.phtml?section=community [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 07-05-2001).] Quote
willstrickland Posted July 5, 2001 Posted July 5, 2001 True dat! When I read that last week, I couldn't get my head around it. Un-freakin believable. Uber-athletes, and in a discipline that requires continued motor coordination. It's not like running where you can be exhausted and still stumble your ass onward. After reading Twight's latest rant book, that news clip, and running across an old article on ultra-marathon/100milers in the same week, my lazy ass has been training legs and cardio, all around strength. If I can't be suffering on the rock, might as well suffer on the bike, road, weight room, the forecast calls for PAIN!PAIN!PAAAAIIIINNNN!! Of course, I've aslso found that nine or ten pints of stout also elicit quite a bit of pain, and "where did that come from" soreness the next day. Quote
specialed Posted July 5, 2001 Posted July 5, 2001 Bolt everything Posted By: Tyler Date Posted: 06/28/2001 If a piece of rock big enough to climb is solid enough to hold a bolt, then it should be grid-bolted. I mean, at least one bolt for every 3-4 square feet man, or maybe more in regions containing high populations of pygmies or other short-types. I think that in California the Forest Service should pay for the bolting (I mean, all those "Adventure Pass" dollars might as well be used for something that benefits sport climbers). The reasoning behind my solution is more solid than most American sport-climbs, and can be distilled down to a single sentence: camming devices are expensive, and most climbers these days are too inept to place them correctly, not to mention other more cerebral gear like sliders, nuts, etc. Quite frankly, I've seen as many nauseating zippers and ground falls on parallel A0 crack climbs as I care to, and I'm tired of trying to convince my loved ones that I am somehow different or safer than the hordes of unprepared climbers who skip giddily to the cliffs with a bright set of cams and a not-so-bright light behind the eyes. Let 'em clip 1/2 inch bolts, enough said. You Believe this shit!!! I don't! What a bunch of crap. I say lets find out who this guy is and round up a posse. BTW, I gave those fuckers a piece of my mind. http://www.rockandice.com/index.phtml?section=community Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 5, 2001 Author Posted July 5, 2001 Some of new generation of climbers now believe this is ok. Look at LorenS. statement there.....This is the pain I think we should not set an example for considering the problems it creates. I have seen more of this bolt next to crack mentality lately, look at Skaha.......... Quote
CascadeClimber Posted July 5, 2001 Posted July 5, 2001 Before I get flamed I want to be perfectly clear that Mr. Loren S. is *not* this Loren, aka CascadeClimber. -CC Quote
Guest Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 quote: Commitment Rating Posted By: Pablo Date Posted: 06/04/2001 It is my opinion that any climb should have a attached commitment rating that reflects the type of protection used (if any)to send the climb.I think it is alright to place and clip bolts,in the same turn you have to be willing to be honest with yourself as to the level of boldness and commitment you possess.I climb rock and ice with removable gear and with the AID of bolts.I honestly feel better about an assent when it is made in a ground up,no fall,traditional style. What is the best way to protect your car from bears? Of course you can stand there with a big machine-gun or install some high voltage contraption. Or you can make it so that nobody wants to break-in. Same with overbolting and bolts where pro can be used. I think Tyler was the smartest poster. Agression only causes reciprocal agression. But a sting to the pride is remembered. I said before and want to repeat, we have to widely accept and use a modified rating system. Those stars, skulls and my chickens should be a much more intrinsick part of the rating than it is now. Guidebooks also have to adopt a different language giving more credit to bolder routes and a bit of contempt for overbolted ones. The rating should reflect the hardest move always complimented by the overall difficulty rating. Looks like brits got it right. Think "Condorphamine", there is one (or max 2) bolt there that if removed would cut the piligrimage in half without becoming any more dangerous or hard. Compare that to the "Split Pillar" pitch - both are 10b! I remember the talk about the "Cunning Stunt", well we could have almost two different climbs there so that one can't just say I climbed the "Cunning Stunt", it's either the real one (Oh! Right on!) or the chicken variation (A-a, the easy way...). The word bolted is not associated with something lesser in the minds of a majority and shouldn't be anyway, there are tons of cool, hard, big balls [so called] "sport" routes, and people know it. If the aim is at bolting in general then it is a loosing proposition. Climbing has become super-popular because it is perceived to be "cool", the TV cool, show off way. All we can do is to direct it, not fight. So that the Condor doesn't become a standard and everyhting at Smith a runout. Anyway, some scattered thoughts. What do you think? Quote
Guest Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 To simply talk about bolting as Tyler has and call him the smartest poster is kind of extreme.. I think that bolts are useful and have their places for sure. However as pope mentioned before they should be kept to a minimum. The placing of massbolts on a slab of rock is a new thing. TO do so without land management thoughts and climbing's future is a selfish thing. Yes there are sport routes of long nature. But do you need to bolt established lines that have been done with gear just so the masses can do them?? What do you think about a 15 pitch line of bolts up El Cap?? Is it a must to bolt every feasable line of rock just because you can. Or can we be limited and satisfied after a certain point?? Are some people just out to put their names in a book as a 1st ascent party and seek glory? I think some are..... Like I said before I think bolts are good just should be limited. It is the people that cause some sort of ruckus that bring the reality back to the masses sometimes. To sit in your office chair and talk about it as a simple issue is completely arrogant, or not well thought out. That is why gyms were created. [This message has been edited by OfficeSpace (edited 07-06-2001).] Quote
specialed Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 Maybe the Brits have it right with their E ratings. That makes a lot of sense to have a pure difficulty rating, regardless of danger, then a seperate commitment or danger rating. I also think that a lot of people involved in drilling these days act autonomously, away from the main established climbing community. These "ascenscionists" have learned their skills in a gym and are mostly ispired by the ethics that are popular indoors and on modern, steep, sport crags. They are ignorant about the values and rich history climbing has. Its one thing to drill a new route or retrobolt if your actions are premeditated, discussed, and accepted. But "renegade" drilling, espescially on protectable rock, is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated. There isn't a lot of mutual ground on this issue and this sort of thing shouldn't be validated by being passive or worried about aggression begating agression. It needs to be nipped in the bud. Quote
Alex Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 If we retro bolt the Infinite Spur, maybe we too can climb it in a day...? Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 6, 2001 Author Posted July 6, 2001 I nominate the crew that did DDD! Yeah just ask Daler he knows who did it. They are well known PNW climbers. [This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 07-06-2001).] Quote
Peter_Puget Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 Great discussion. My take is that it is not so much that guidebooks should promote one style over another but rather promote all styles. If TRs where given real status and legitimacy maybe there would be less incentive to bolt. Here are two concrete examples: the oft’ mentioned Dan’s Dreadful - its easily TR’d and kind of a squeeze job anyway. Even if it had never been lead I still think it should not be bolted for those reasons alone. Out at the Fun Forest : A truck load of bolts have been placed on top rope routes that had already been climbed claimed the FA and renamed the routes and the area. It’s all climbing to me sport mountains, trad. “big wall” toproping , bold ,not bold. Quote
specialed Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 Except that unnecessary bolting is "the murder of the impossible" Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 6, 2001 Author Posted July 6, 2001 Come on please dont start quoting Reinhold as I think a lot of his writing is boring........ Quote
specialed Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 What! the man who chases the great Yeti is boring? Give him a break, he's German, he lost his sense of humor in the war, or lack of O2 or something. It is a good quote though. Quote
erik Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 ed, once again you are wrong. messner is from south tyrol which is a of state italy bordering austria. maybe next time. and i heard they ate dogs there during the war. http://www.sudtirol.com/convbureauaa/pag02e.htm and after rerading how good messner knows he is, it gets a little old. [This message has been edited by erik (edited 07-06-2001).] Quote
specialed Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 Thanks for the your anal retentive correction Erik. They also allow dogs into restaurants and bars in Europe. They worship cows in India whats your fucking point? Quote
erik Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 just trying to get you fired up. shoulda never used a racial slur, hard to make friends after that! Quote
specialed Posted July 6, 2001 Posted July 6, 2001 a racial slur? Don't think so bro. Why don't you look up the definition of that term (i.e. pertainting to one's ethnic background). That would be impossible since I don't make those sort of comments, and I don't know and don't care what race you are. Quote
erik Posted July 7, 2001 Posted July 7, 2001 http://webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=Nazis looks like you are wrong again. and your comments about calling me a nazi are deeply flawed and strikes an accord of saddness in my heart. you do not know me and nefer will. those people believe or were lead to believe in some truly evil doings, doings that i am appauled by and even make me sick. so i hope you can figure out whats wrong with you. i just don't want your dog or anyone else's affecting my day in a negative way. which have succesfully done today. hope you happy with yourself. [This message has been edited by erik (edited 07-06-2001).] Quote
willstrickland Posted July 7, 2001 Posted July 7, 2001 This thread is pretty funny, two links...one a news clip of an amazing feat, and one a boring rehash of bolting debate. What do we focus on...the boring shit. Some of those comments were pretty funny though, especially the girl talking about scary ice in the southeast. Only thing scary about it is that there isn't any...well any that forms regularly, and the little that does is on road cuts. You could get some good alpine practice though, lots of drytooling to connect the 1/4" patches of ice on random cliffs. Hell fire Cletus, 20 degrees is a deep freeze down there, single digits set records. A week that doesn't have a high temp above 40 is a sign of the apocalypse. Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 7, 2001 Author Posted July 7, 2001 http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/ubb/Forum23/HTML/000064.html Quote
Cpt.Caveman Posted July 7, 2001 Author Posted July 7, 2001 Stay tuned Will there is a lot of slush climbing here in the winter too Plus I promise to drop a thread once a week that is pretty wierd from now on.. Quote
Lambone Posted July 8, 2001 Posted July 8, 2001 Back to the topic... Its not only new climbers that are all about bolting everything. Look at Warren Harding, he bolted all kinds of chimneys up in the High Sierra. Not to mention the Valley... "Old Schoolers" are too self rightious about the purity of their generation. There are always rotten eggs in the batch, whether they taste bad is a matter of personal preference. Quote
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