Grip Strength

[tvashtarkatena]

You rest 3 days between muscle groups and don't do one mucscle more than twice in a week.

 

Given that I only do one set till burn, what's the upside/downside of working the same muscle group 3 times a week instead of only 2? I've read 48 to 72 hour recovery time minimum, so I went with 48, with a 72 hour rest once a week.

Edited November 29, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[Peter_Puget]

Thank you.

 

 

[K^2]

You rest 3 days between muscle groups and don't do one mucscle more than twice in a week.

 

Given that I only do one set till burn, what's the upside/downside of working the same muscle group 3 times a week instead of only 2? I've read 48 to 72 hour recovery time minimum, so I went with 48, with a 72 hour rest once a week.

 

I split my body into 3 parts for working out:

 

biceps/triceps

chest/back

legs/shoulders

 

It works out great this way - can in theory go 6 days on, 1 day off when I am not climbing. Otherwise, I try to go 3 on, 1 off. However I have dropped the legs in lieu of more cardio the last 2 years, and in general rarely do more than 4 weight-training days a week, so the breakdown isn't as useful as it once was.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

What weight exercizes have people found that isolate a muscle groups most effectively?

 

My sets include the following. Am I missing anything?

 

leg curls

leg lifts

chin ups (don't have a lat pull)

crunches (lower and upper)

bench press

fly

military press

lat raises (arms hanging to straight out)

tri extensions (flat on back, arms 90 to straight up)

tri kickbacks

Kneeling row

dips

curls

roll ups (weight on a line thing)

grip exerciser

[K^2]

What weight exercizes have people found that isolate a muscle groups most effectively?

 

I agree that isolating muscle groups is very important and effective. However, I would caution against picking one or two exercises for a particular muscle group and doing those same exercises exclusively for that muscle group. A better approach is to have an entire "suite" of isolating exercises for each muscle group that you cycle through to mix up your workouts. Otherwise it is easy to stagnate and not completely develop said muscles.

 

On the biceps theme, here are some isolating exercises I use:

1) standing barbell curl, wide grip

2) standing barbell curl, narrow grip

3) standing barbell curl, reverse grip

4) preacher curl, barbell

5) standing dumbbell curl, supinate

6) standing dumbbell curl, hammer-head

7) seated dumbbell curl, hammer-head

8) seated concentration curl

9) preacher curl, dumbell

10) preacher curl, "nautilus" style machine

 

Typically I pick 3 of these, and do three sets each in a workout. Then the next time I focus on biceps, I swap the set of exercises I do.

 

[ski2die]

The best way to train your forarms is pure rock climbing, and crack climbing is good for wrist strength.

 

Wrist curls are one of the most effective ways to build fore-arm strength and conditioning. I curl a 40lb barbell 15 times each hand, 5 sets. You need to get a good painful burn if you expect to build your forarms. They are a very hard muscle to train.

 

 

 

[spotly]

Well climbing is totally out for at least 4 months. It appears my torn rotator has healed well but since the pain persists, they've done an MRI with some dye and it turns out I've got a torn labrum as well. Damn, I wish they woulda caught that a few months ago. I can still hike and work the core I guess. Thanks for all of the great advice though.

[high_on_rock]

Sorry to hear that spot. 4 months will have you out in the spring though.

 

e

[markwebster]

rock gyms are absolutely the best for finger strength. I climbed for 28 years before one came to my town and thought I didn't need one. Now that I frequent one, I'm totally sold. Not only do you get "hands of iron", you also get leading practice, airtime, and meet climbing partners. The people who frequent gyms are very healthy...can you say babes?

 

the only downside is the cost, but most gyms have a program in place where you can volunteer belay at birthday parties 6 hours a month in exchange for membership. They are always looking for reliable belayers. I go to edgeworksclimbing.com in tacoma.

[i_like_sun]

You rest 3 days between muscle groups and don't do one muscle more than twice in a week.

 

Given that I only do one set till burn, what's the upside/downside of working the same muscle group 3 times a week instead of only 2? I've read 48 to 72 hour recovery time minimum, so I went with 48, with a 72 hour rest once a week.

 

I split my body into 3 parts for working out:

 

biceps/triceps

chest/back

legs/shoulders

 

It works out great this way - can in theory go 6 days on, 1 day off when I am not climbing. Otherwise, I try to go 3 on, 1 off. However I have dropped the legs in lieu of more card the last 2 years, and in general rarely do more than 4 weight-training days a week, so the breakdown isn't as useful as it once was.

 

 

 

Hey guys, when during climbing or any daily task do you JUST work "biceps/triceps" or "chest/back" or "legs/shoulders"? The answer is, YOU DON'T. All of the research on strength development in humans shows that neural adaptations account for nearly ALL strength gains. Muscle hypertrophy is only a very, very small aspect of the whole strength equation. In order to get stronger in an activity like rock climbing, you must train in ways that mimic that activity as closely as possible (this is why climbing is the best training for climbing). Training like a body builder WILL NOT make you a better climber.

 

Also, in terms of this grip strength thing, why not focus on the bigger picture? Seriously, just training your hand flexors isn't going to get you shit. If you want freaky grip strength, forget squeezing Play-Doh for hours, lift some heavy ass stuff! Do hang-cleans, squats, weighted pull-ups, bent over rows, ROCK CLIMB, bench presses etc... Even go to the beach and practice picking up the biggest and heaviest rock you can find. Where I'm going with this, is that the research shows that all this isolation stuff is a waste of time and money. General exercise is best.

[sexual_chocolate]

Hey guys, when during climbing or any daily task do you JUST work "biceps/triceps" or "chest/back" or "legs/shoulders"? The answer is, YOU DON'T. All of the research on strength development in humans shows that neural adaptations account for nearly ALL strength gains. Muscle hypertrophy is only a very, very small aspect of the whole strength equation. In order to get stronger in an activity like rock climbing, you must train in ways that mimic that activity as closely as possible (this is why climbing is the best training for climbing). Training like a body builder WILL NOT make you a better climber.

 

Also, in terms of this grip strength thing, why not focus on the bigger picture? Seriously, just training your hand flexors isn't going to get you shit. If you want freaky grip strength, forget squeezing Play-Doh for hours, lift some heavy ass stuff! Do hang-cleans, squats, weighted pull-ups, bent over rows, ROCK CLIMB, bench presses etc... Even go to the beach and practice picking up the biggest and heaviest rock you can find. Where I'm going with this, is that the research shows that all this isolation stuff is a waste of time and money. General exercise is best.

 

hmmmm, i don't know what you mean by "training like a body builder", but i KNOW that when i did a 6 month weight lifting cycle, my climbing improved.

but here's the rub: i adapted climbing-specific movements to lifting, and did hardly anything beyond these, except for military and bench press (i got a lot of funny looks at the gym).

everything was geared towards heavy weight, with sets at 80% to 90% and reps around 2 to 5 (multiple sets, maybe 8 to 10), and i worked my ass off.

 

but again, the exercises i chose seemed to make sense, as did the rep counts.

 

 

it helped my climbing (became much more comfortable at the 5.13 level, no more joint pains or tendinitis), and i went from a skinny 160 pounds to a lean 170. i can still drop to 165 easily, and the added strength is never unwanted.

 

 

 

as to throwing away the gripper exercisers above, that i would pretty much completely agree with. i think it would be much more effective to use the pinch grips on any decent hangboard, versus the grippers (which generally do little in terms of mimicking actual climbing forces and movements).

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Gripper exercizers are great for ice climbing. Remember, there's more than just rock out there.

[RuMR]

i would wager that choco-head has an idea or two about serious training that far exceeds most posters on this thread. I would also wager that his scrawny (come on 170 lbs? at 6 feet? that's funny!!! -lookin' that is...) would do just fine at ice climbing...

 

 

[eric8]

Sexual, where your climbing specific exercises, if you don't mind me asking?

[sexual_chocolate]

Gripper exercizers are great for ice climbing. Remember, there's more than just rock out there.

 

if grippers work for ya, then stick to 'em (although i'm curious what exactly that might mean here).

 

although i've never seen anyone who climbs at a high standard recommend 'em, except for warming up.

[sexual_chocolate]

Sexual, where your climbing specific exercises, if you don't mind me asking?

 

what were they? as in the lifting exercises?

 

btw i mainly did the lifting thing cuz i had a bum finger, but ended up getting really into it, and was psyched and surprised at how much it helped.

[sexual_chocolate]

I would also wager that his scrawny (come on 170 lbs? at 6 feet? that's funny!!! -lookin' that is...)

 

are you makin fun of my skinny ass?

 

ok let's see, 170 pounds divided by 74 inches = 2.297 pounds per inch.

 

and for you: 120 pounds divided by 60 inches = 2 pounds per inch.

 

hey wait a minute: who's the scrawny ass here?!?!?!?

[eric8]

oh yeah sorry what were they? Like one arm lat pull, levers, etc

[hafilax]

Hey guys, when during climbing or any daily task do you JUST work "biceps/triceps" or "chest/back" or "legs/shoulders"? The answer is, YOU DON'T. All of the research on strength development in humans shows that neural adaptations account for nearly ALL strength gains. Muscle hypertrophy is only a very, very small aspect of the whole strength equation. In order to get stronger in an activity like rock climbing, you must train in ways that mimic that activity as closely as possible (this is why climbing is the best training for climbing). Training like a body builder WILL NOT make you a better climber.

 

Also, in terms of this grip strength thing, why not focus on the bigger picture? Seriously, just training your hand flexors isn't going to get you shit. If you want freaky grip strength, forget squeezing Play-Doh for hours, lift some heavy ass stuff! Do hang-cleans, squats, weighted pull-ups, bent over rows, ROCK CLIMB, bench presses etc... Even go to the beach and practice picking up the biggest and heaviest rock you can find. Where I'm going with this, is that the research shows that all this isolation stuff is a waste of time and money. General exercise is best.

My understanding is that you can build muscle mass using near climbing specific exercises then recruit the new muscle for climbing through climbing exercises. For example, Hoerst posits that a one time finger strength gain can be made buy doing heavy finger rolls. This motion isn't very climbing specific but it shocks the body into building muscle that can then be recruited.

 

I think this is why people make gains in their climbing due to improvements in over all fitness and how lifting weights can in the end improve one's climbing. Those who know better please correct me if I'm wrong. Overall fitness has its place as do isolation exercises. It all depends on what weaknesses you want to work on.

 

My goal for the winter is to improve my endurance. I can pull relatively hard moves but get shut down whenever I have to hang for more than a few minutes. I blame gym climbing. I can blast up routes especially once they're wired but I really need to start slowing down and climbing for longer. I think I will give an interval routine a try. I'd like to try some bouldering intervals as well to try and make some finger strength gains as well.

[tvashtarkatena]

A thought from the low climbing standard perspective....

 

I've incorporated an Ivanko Vicegripper into my weight lifting routine so I can hang on to an ice tool on steeper stuff longer. I just got it, so it's too early to gauge any effect. The weight training itself, however, turned me from a slob who couldn't hang on to his ice tools for 30 feet of WI 5 to a slob who can do laps on longer routes of the same grade. I still suck, but now I suck with some hope of a better future. Night and day.

 

Grip endurance is a common weak point for alot of ice climbers. Alot of times you know exactly what you need to do to move up, but you just can't hang on any longer.

 

[RuMR]

I would also wager that his scrawny (come on 170 lbs? at 6 feet? that's funny!!! -lookin' that is...)

 

are you makin fun of my skinny ass?

 

ok let's see, 170 pounds divided by 74 inches = 2.297 pounds per inch.

 

and for you: 120 pounds divided by 60 inches = 2 pounds per inch.

 

hey wait a minute: who's the scrawny ass here?!?!?!?

 

That'd be 146lbs divided by 65 inches = 2.25 lbs per inch...

 

you've obviously got me confused with little ben...

[tvashtarkatena]

Jesus, you guy's don't need grip strength, you need tethers to keep your stick insect asses earthbound.

[sexual_chocolate]

 

That'd be 146lbs divided by 65 inches = 2.25 lbs per inch...

 

you've obviously got me confused with little ben...

 

146?!?!? holyyyyyy.... where ya packing that shit?

 

btw, little ben: 106!

[sexual_chocolate]

A thought from the low climbing standard perspective....

 

I've incorporated an Ivanko Vicegripper into my weight lifting routine so I can hang on to an ice tool on steeper stuff longer. I just got it, so it's too early to gauge any effect. The weight training itself, however, turned me from a slob who couldn't hang on to his ice tools for 30 feet of WI 5 to a slob who can do laps on longer routes of the same grade. I still suck, but now I suck with some hope of a better future. Night and day.

 

Grip endurance is a common weak point for alot of ice climbers. Alot of times you know exactly what you need to do to move up, but you just can't hang on any longer.

 

nice on the improvement, that's cool.

 

I wonder though if setting up something in your house to hook your tools onto and then hanging on them might not be a heck of a lot better training for actually hanging on to them when out climbing?

 

i can imagine various workouts where you'd maybe do timed hangs with both hands on tools, timed hangs with weights, one arm hangs, etc etc and various set counts etc where the training would be much more specific than using a gripper. i'd throw in locks too, where you pull up with both tools and let go with the other, and then see if you can hold the one arm lock.

 

al sorts of fun!

[tvashtarkatena]

Could you possibly be suggesting that hanging from tools is good training for hanging from tools?

 

I'm on it. After Lillooet, that got added to my project list for this week. A progression of pull ups till failure, then a lock off till failure, then just hanging on as long as possible, would probably max out lats, then biceps, then grippers in that order.

Edited December 12, 2007 by tvashtarkatena