billcoe Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Dude...I won't even try to speculate why you chose to write that nor why you thought it was clever. You might think that our (environmental/ethical) opinions are a joke....but you're smart enough and been around long enough to understand the issues and our perspective of it.......... SCHREECH SCREECH SCREECH SHRILL SHRILL SHRILL BLAH BLAH BLAH SCHREECH SCREECH SCREECH SHRILL SHRILL SHRILL BLAH BLAH BLAH CROW NOISES ON AND ON CAW CAW CAW........ Well someone showed up to the thread without their sense of humor. This seals the name for sure. Me and "Dawg" are going to roam the west with our white hats on a white stallion, bolting for the poor boltless out there, standing up for good against.....some loud ass humorless crows out there. Oh wait, hang on, the phone is ringing...... Damn, they cancelled my order for the drill cause it's on backorder. Crap. I'll bet it's cause everyone else is getting one. In fact, I heard that they give all new climbers one at the gym if you sign up for that deluxe learn to climb package, the one with the balloons and the cake. Crap, I bet I'm just at the end of a long swarming line of bolting wantobee N00bs. Maybe I need to buy that new cordless power scissors and make like Edward Scissorhands: Bastards, they took my "Dawg" away. Well, we'll see about this......they won't get away with this kind of sh*t for long. They don't even know who they are messing with here. ....to be continued..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Sounds like you’re lazy… Hey Rain….have you ever ridden on an elevator or escalator before? No, “Pee-Wee Herman” is reserved as a comical response to immature taunts by guys like you. So that sounds like a compliment. My last response did not get red flagged as “immature taunts”. Cool. Nonsense…they believed that one should ascend…that is, climb from the bottom up….not rappel down and set your anchors. Are you speaking for the entire climbing community on this one? It could have been done much safer and easier that way, even if drilled by hand…but it was a choice. Isn’t that what climbing is all about? What was done “much safer and easier that way”? Are you saying if drilled by hand it would be safer? Not sure what you are saying? Two words from my comments above…”lazy”, “ascent”. Elevator V. stairs…..how many times have you chosen the elevator? Come on…..be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 ....to be continued..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 ....to be continued..... Hey bill.....looks like your response is an imature taunt. Good for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 ....to be continued..... Hey bill.....looks like your response is an imature taunt. Good for you See kev, that's me with the Fro back there, he keeps posting this thinking I'm ashamed of what I use to be but I'm not. So I was once a tall black man with big hair and now I'm a short white guy going bald? Don't bother me at all. haha Please excuse me as now I'm off to ebay for a drill............ an extra large Mastriati model....which will be named "Dawg". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Sounds like you’re lazy… Hey Rain….have you ever ridden on an elevator or escalator before? Utterly irrelevant....we're talking about climbing. Such analogies only obscure the issue....and you can make a million similar ones. And yes, I've even taken an airplane rather than crawling naked over broken glass to the east coast. Nonsense…they believed that one should ascend…that is, climb from the bottom up….not rappel down and set your anchors. Are you speaking for the entire climbing community on this one? It certainly was the general trend, and I was part of it....you definitely weren't and perhaps weren't even born yet. It could have been done much safer and easier that way, even if drilled by hand…but it was a choice. Isn’t that what climbing is all about? What was done “much safer and easier that way”? Are you saying if drilled by hand it would be safer? Not sure what you are saying? The point I'm making is that those who believed in the ground-up ascent ethic could have often made their lives a lot safer and easier if they had chosen to adopt a top-down ethic. They could have rappeled down, as is the norm today. That was always an option on suitable crags. Instead, most chose to place their bolts, often few and far between, on lead, where there was a stance, or perhaps a flake where they could temporarily protect themselves with a hook while they drilled. The climbs tended to follow more natural lines, rather some vertical line of artificial anchors placed in a row to create a "route". They believed in ascent, recognizing that any boob could establish a "route" or a line of bolts from the top down...history has proved this to be true, untold thousands of times in the last couple of decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Off_White Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 you don't get out much, do you? there's TONS of trad protected FACE climbing out there...and a lot of it isn't dangerous... Yep, like most of the Gunks. Yes indeed, no need for bolts on all this horizontally banded quartzite we have around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 those who believed in the ground-up ascent ethic could have often made their lives a lot safer and easier if they had chosen to adopt a top-down ethic. They could have rappeled down, as is the norm today. That was always an option on suitable crags. I love it when you speak for other people. Please refrain from telling me what “everybody” thinks. What do you think? Sheesh….talk about thread drift. Pope, Rain…..are you guys going to come down (or up or sideways) and help with building the trail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raindawg Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 those who believed in the ground-up ascent ethic could have often made their lives a lot safer and easier if they had chosen to adopt a top-down ethic. They could have rappeled down, as is the norm today. That was always an option on suitable crags. I love it when you speak for other people. Please refrain from telling me what “everybody” thinks. What do you think? Dude...I ain't telling you what "everybody" thinks. I'm edumacating you on the philosophy of the ground-up ascent ethic. For your weak-sauce comment above, you have earned yourself a special image: Sheesh….talk about thread drift. Pope, Rain…..are you guys going to come down (or up or sideways) and help with building the trail? No, I'm going on an expedition until early December and pope has a family to take care of. Even so, trail-building on your local crag is so low down on my priority list I can't even find it...looks like you're going to have to take it on yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 .... Even so, trail-building on your local crag is so low down on my priority list I can't even find it...looks like you're going to have to take it on yourself. No can do, too wet for a backho down there. However, once it dries out, we'll bet the lil' thing down there along with a DC9 cat we'll call "Pope" as this replica demonstrates. Between "the pope" and "the dawg" we should about have her handled so go ahead and go off to play with your little friends and we'll get the real work done while you boyz are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_forester Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 make sure not to deface any rock when you're off looking for the Temple of Doom! we'll let you know how the trail building goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 those who believed in the ground-up ascent ethic could have often made their lives a lot safer and easier if they had chosen to adopt a top-down ethic. They could have rappeled down, as is the norm today. That was always an option on suitable crags. I love it when you speak for other people. Please refrain from telling me what “everybody” thinks. What do you think? Dude...I ain't telling you what "everybody" thinks. I'm edumacating you on the philosophy of the ground-up ascent ethic. For your weak-sauce comment above, you have earned yourself a special image: Sheesh….talk about thread drift. Pope, Rain…..are you guys going to come down (or up or sideways) and help with building the trail? No, I'm going on an expedition until early December and pope has a family to take care of. Even so, trail-building on your local crag is so low down on my priority list I can't even find it...looks like you're going to have to take it on yourself. Thanks.....see you next time.....or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 BTW, I cannot for the life of me, really, cannot fathom why the NPS uses stuff like this When in the old days 2000 Chinese could get the job done without it. My last trip back from Yosemite I watched a TV show ranger criticizing installing bolts as this major gross invasion of the wilderness, while at the exact moment, 300 yards away they were paving a new rest area with things like this: Yet you cannot see the lil bolts, they are as if a speck of nothingness in a vast sea. Yet Mt Rainer and Yos get these huge development deals happening with and and new roads for all the cars that need easy access, like your car. Huh? But you know all that and have most likely stepped up to that plate to correct that gross injustice against humanity, ethics and the environment eh Don? Or is it just easier for you to be the Elmer Gantry or the Rock Police making crow noises? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 BTW, I cannot for the life of me, really, cannot fathom why the NPS uses stuff like this When in the old days 2000 Chinese could get the job done without it. My last trip back from Yosemite I watched a TV show ranger criticizing installing bolts as this major gross invasion of the wilderness, while at the exact moment, 300 yards away they were paving a new rest area with things like this: Yet you cannot see the lil bolts, they are as if a speck of nothingness in a vast sea. Yet Mt Rainer and Yos get these huge development deals happening with and and new roads for all the cars that need easy access, like your car. Huh? But you know all that and have most likely stepped up to that plate to correct that gross injustice against humanity, ethics and the environment eh Don? Or is it just easier for you to be the Elmer Gantry or the Rock Police making crow noises? Post of the day Rain, Pope.....take that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Now, I've run things like that, and been paid to do it. I know what real work is like. So not to seem like a hypocrite here like some people on this thread who clip bolts and then complain about it, let me say I'm fine with some of the big developments happening, but just out yourself up front and say "OK, it's about the money. That's why we're doing it. " Like when they replaced all the washed out roads on Rainer. All the bolts in the world do not add up to a speck on the ass of some of these huge construction projects which happen in your parks, like the one at Beacon that just put a brand new concrete bridge and road in for the boat ramp at Beacon. Huge invasive project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 have a nice trip btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 not to aid the team douchebag-dwaynus... BUT, you are talking apples and oranges. That's like telling my son its ok to litter because there are landfills and its "just a speck"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 BUT, you are talking apples and oranges. I disagree……think of it like…..looking at the big picture. Complaining about bolts on wall…..is small potatoes compared to building roads and clearing forests to make golf courses….. Bill was and is right on the money….. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 not to aid the team douchebag-dwaynus... BUT, you are talking apples and oranges. That's like telling my son its ok to litter because there are landfills and its "just a speck"... Except I don't see bolting as an environmental attack like he does. Why doesn't he see the huge developement projects, LIKE the new rest area in Yos, or the new buildings there as real environmental destruction is beyond me. And frankly, I see the need for the new rest area, I draw the line at needless new bars, pizza restaurants, stores and hotels in that specific national park, but the NPS justs ignore my thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 All the bolts in the world do not add up to a speck on the ass of some of these huge construction projects which happen in your parks, like the one at Beacon that just put a brand new concrete bridge and road in for the boat ramp at Beacon. Huge invasive project. Yeah….but why did they build the huge brand new concrete bridge and road to get to the boat ramp at Beacon? To make it safer. The pull out had a ridiculous blind spot…..so they moved the pull out down by a couple of hundred feet and added a bridge to access the same road. mmmm…..makes you think about why someone would add a bolt? Mmmmm…..maybe to make it safer? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 not to aid the team douchebag-dwaynus... BUT, you are talking apples and oranges. That's like telling my son its ok to litter because there are landfills and its "just a speck"... Except I don't see bolting as an environmental attack like he does. Why doesn't he see the huge developement projects, LIKE the new rest area in Yos, or the new buildings there as real environmental destruction is beyond me. And frankly, I see the need for the new rest area, I draw the line at needless new bars, pizza restaurants, stores and hotels in that specific national park, but the NPS justs ignore my thoughts. ...i don't dwanus thinks those are "improvements" at all...he's just trying to keep climbing wild Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 All the bolts in the world do not add up to a speck on the ass of some of these huge construction projects which happen in your parks, like the one at Beacon that just put a brand new concrete bridge and road in for the boat ramp at Beacon. Huge invasive project. Yeah….but why did they build the huge brand new concrete bridge and road to get to the boat ramp at Beacon? To make it safer. The pull out had a ridiculous blind spot…..so they moved the pull out down by a couple of hundred feet and added a bridge to access the same road. mmmm…..makes you think about why someone would add a bolt? Mmmmm…..maybe to make it safer? Just a thought. hey kevebone...not everyone thinks that every route needs to be sanitized... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 All the bolts in the world do not add up to a speck on the ass of some of these huge construction projects which happen in your parks, like the one at Beacon that just put a brand new concrete bridge and road in for the boat ramp at Beacon. Huge invasive project. Yeah….but why did they build the huge brand new concrete bridge and road to get to the boat ramp at Beacon? To make it safer. The pull out had a ridiculous blind spot…..so they moved the pull out down by a couple of hundred feet and added a bridge to access the same road. mmmm…..makes you think about why someone would add a bolt? Mmmmm…..maybe to make it safer? Just a thought. hey kevebone...not everyone thinks that every route needs to be sanitized... I agree…….but the state (people who mgr the roads), wanted to “dumb down” the entrance to this particular road on to Hwy 14 for the safety of the masses, and they did not even ask the first road developer……. One could argue by Rain and Popes ethics…..if you can’t squeal your tires and drive 13.a…..then you should not drive on that part of the road. Bamb….slap….capooy…..bingo…..what do ya say to that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 what i say is that the general population is expected to be able to use road facilities with safety inherently built into them, and they also pay taxes for that right. This does NOT apply to climbing...if you think it does, well, we obviously climb for completely different reasons. When i was putting up routes, i never considered who was to follow...if you didn't like it, don't climb it. its your argument in reverse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 by your argument, indian creek should have escalators up to the anchors.... don't you want some risk and adventure? At all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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