kevbone Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Who is the developer? When? Why did they bolt cracks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Who is the developer? When? Why did they bolt cracks? why don't you use all that emotional energy for something constructive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 Who is the developer? When? Why did they bolt cracks? why don't you use all that emotional energy for something constructive? I think you are reading into something that is not there. This is a serious question. I recently climbed there on my lunch hour……I thought (for what is was) it was kind of a neat place to have in your back yard. But they did bolt some obvious cracks……just trying to find out the history…..thanks….. Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Who is the developer? When? Why did they bolt cracks? why don't you use all that emotional energy for something constructive? I think you are reading into something that is not there. This is a serious question. I recently climbed there on my lunch hour……I thought (for what is was) it was kind of a neat place to have in your back yard. But they did bolt some obvious cracks……just trying to find out the history…..thanks….. Kevin relieving work stress by being an anonymous jack-ass...don't mind me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 relieving work stress by being an anonymous jack-ass...don't mind me OK, but I might have to ignore all of you then. Bone, couple of the pdx after work group has met there. Should join us occasionally. Check yer e-mail's. You're welcome BTW. Also, I think it's because the rock is so friable. It you note the left side, I think the top of the left route may not be long for the world.... but it's a hard call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 11, 2007 Author Share Posted September 11, 2007 relieving work stress by being an anonymous jack-ass...don't mind me OK, but I might have to ignore all of you then. Bone, couple of the pdx after work group has met there. Should join us occasionally. Check yer e-mail's. You're welcome BTW. Also, I think it's because the rock is so friable. It you note the left side, I think the top of the left route may not be long for the world.... but it's a hard call. Thanks bill.....got it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Safety; cracks dirty and shallow; accessibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Safety; cracks dirty and shallow; accessibility. I am a little confused? What do you mean by this post? Are you referring to LO climbing? Thanks..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoff Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Yes. Dude says that is why he bolted the climbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Dude says that is why he bolted the climbs. Very interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
111 Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 It was done in the 80s when it was cool to bolt cracks. Oswego Crag just sliped under the radar of the counter revolutionaries of the 90s. They had Rocky Butte to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 It was done in the 80s when it was cool to bolt cracks. I never knew that there was a time that is was OK to bolt cracks.....interesting. Thanks. I am going there tomorrow for my lunch hour......its better than not climbing on my lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 (edited) I mentioned this earlier to you via email, but thought it should be tossed out there on this forum since the thread is still going. Look, it was never cool to bolt cracks and still isn't, and whether these are even cracks could be debated although there is an obvious spot or 2 for pieces here and there. I think it's a great place for the style of pro that is there. Bolts: which aren't too close together either. But thats me and here's why. I was there once with Ujahn and some guy pulled a head sized block and the rope came tight 2' or so off the deck when he fell - on a bolt. Ask U if you don't believe me. A) The cracks are shallow and discontinous, shit for pro. The rock is better now, but still relatively loose. Climb up and tap on the top on the left side for instance. On short routes, there is often only be 1 piece of pro between you and the deck, death is a close companion for a beginner. More so when the pro is so marginal. B) There are many people who climb there who are beginners. C) It is owned by the RR and people climb there with their tactit approval. IF, there was a single accident during which the authorities would close down the place, causeing the RR a major inconvienance, say yellow tape for 8 hours while the authorities investagated a death: I do not believe that the RR would ever allow anyone to ever go there again. D) At 30' high or what ever it is, if there were not bolts, you could probably expect plenty of accidents given what is noted above. I think those guy's did a great job and should be commended. Hey if you're climbing there tomorrow, how about clipping the poison oak in the center top area? Nice place to get a pump on your lunch hour isn't it, you should talk to Ujhan he use to live right near there and has a few more secret places you could get a quick bouldering pump on when you get bored of this rathole in 10 min or whatever it takes. (I say that affectionately, I like the place - (especially if it just rained in the summer, cause the butte is wet and this place dries off fast) Right in downtown LO, no shit dude. Secret. But that's for him to share. Not me. Edited September 12, 2007 by billcoe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin_Matlock Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 how about clipping the poison oak in the center top area? How 'bout that giant bee's nest in that sappling right there on top? That thing still sitting right at face-height all cocked and loaded for the first poor sucker who doesn't notice it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 I think it's a great place for the style of pro that is there. Bolts: which aren't too close together either. I agree it’s a bit run vertically but if you look at the second and third route from the right…..there are two bolts not even 12 INCHES apart horizontally. At first glance….I did a double take. I know there is an arête splitting these bolts, but from the ground its looks bad. I thought the 11.- (second route from right), was bolted irresponsible. The guide states you will not deck…..I find that hard to believe. A) The cracks are shallow and discontinous, shit for pro. The rock is better now, but still relatively loose. Climb up and tap on the top on the left side for instance. On short routes, there is often only be 1 piece of pro between you and the deck, death is a close companion for a beginner. More so when the pro is so marginal. I agree the cracks are dirty (ever heard of cleaning?). Not to be a complainer but…..it looks like someone just got lazy. Most of the cracks I dug my hand into would take great gear…..I am not saying the place does not need bolts…..only a lot less. B) There are many people who climb there who are beginners. Climb at your own risk. C) It is owned by the RR and people climb there with their tactit approval. IF, there was a single accident during which the authorities would close down the place, causeing the RR a major inconvenience, say yellow tape for 8 hours while the authorities investagated a death: I do not believe that the RR would ever allow anyone to ever go there again. D) At 30' high or what ever it is, if there were not bolts, you could probably expect plenty of accidents given what is noted above. Yes to have it close for an accident would suck….but the question remains…..does the “possibility” of closure out weight 50 years of ethics? Just asking! I think those guy's did a great job and should be commended. I disagree, but I do respect those who came before me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I think it's a great place for the style of pro that is there. Bolts: which aren't too close together either. I agree it’s a bit run vertically but if you look at the second and third route from the right…..there are two bolts not even 12 INCHES apart horizontally. At first glance….I did a double take. I know there is an arête splitting these bolts, but from the ground its looks bad. I thought the 11.- (second route from right), was bolted irresponsible. The guide states you will not deck…..I find that hard to believe. A) The cracks are shallow and discontinous, shit for pro. The rock is better now, but still relatively loose. Climb up and tap on the top on the left side for instance. On short routes, there is often only be 1 piece of pro between you and the deck, death is a close companion for a beginner. More so when the pro is so marginal. I agree the cracks are dirty (ever heard of cleaning?). Not to be a complainer but…..it looks like someone just got lazy. Most of the cracks I dug my hand into would take great gear…..I am not saying the place does not need bolts…..only a lot less. B) There are many people who climb there who are beginners. Climb at your own risk. C) It is owned by the RR and people climb there with their tactit approval. IF, there was a single accident during which the authorities would close down the place, causing the RR a major inconvenience, say yellow tape for 8 hours while the authorities investigated a death: I do not believe that the RR would ever allow anyone to ever go there again. D) At 30' high or what ever it is, if there were not bolts, you could probably expect plenty of accidents given what is noted above. Yes to have it close for an accident would suck….but the question remains…..does the “possibility” of closure out weight 50 years of ethics? Just asking! I think those guy's did a great job and should be commended. I disagree, but I do respect those who came before me. So....you respect this then? Or you respect the people who did this because they came first? Not sure what your saying Kevin. Huge point of order, I didn't say that the "Cracks are dirty", I actually said "shallow and discontinuous, shit for pro." Check my text. I see those as hugely different statements. Especially as far as new climbers to the sport go or even tired old goobers like myself eating dirt:-0. I know that I get a kick out of that lil rathole. I really suspect you do to and wouldn't change anything about the place either. I'm glad that we can climb there, and think this was the best course of action for the reasons enumerated above. Really, this was the best way. Here's some recent "dirty cracks" which just got done and were not "shallow and discontinuous, shit for pro" and so did not get bolts. [insert gratuitous climbing shorts here] OK, maybe that one up above there is discontinuous and shit for pro, I've paused to put in a piece and I dare you to show me the crack there, but I didn't put bolts in on the FA. BUT, you can easily toprope this one at the Butte, while you can't do that at Rathole cause it's some ladies backyard and she doesn't want to see dirty bums popping up and down on her property all day. dirty dirty hugely dirty, 3 shots at cleaning it off, first piece is 20' up. Used a shovel to clean it. Most of these were FAed this summer. No bolts. Except we did 2 each for an anchor on the 1st and 4th one. I'm good climbing with no bolts. LO is good with. Those guys did a good job. My thoughts. BTW, hopefully Jimmy did the cleaning at that other area you had mentioned earlier. If not, remind him. Someone gave me crap for spraying the oak out there. Hopefully most of it's dead by now, or close to it. I hit the top, but that 40' high tree of poison oak you dudes whacked and tossed earlier at the base regrew in big and thick, so I hit it too. Some young lady says to me as I wander by: "What are you doing", I say "spraying the oak", she frowns and says " Does it have a disease"? Gotta get some work in, later..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 So....you respect this then? Or you respect the people who did this because they came first? Not sure what your saying Kevin. I respect those who came before me…..meaning I may not like it…..but I will not change anything. If I did not respect those who came before me….I might rip all the bolts out of the wall and do it right IMO. Of course I would never do this. So I respect the fact that someone got there before me. I do enjoy climbing there. I just wish I was told there was gear…..I could have supplemented gear in-between the run outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I do enjoy climbing there. I just wish I was told there was gear…..I could have supplemented gear in-between the run outs. Runouts? Ha ha! funny. good one. You are kidding, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 I do enjoy climbing there. I just wish I was told there was gear…..I could have supplemented gear in-between the run outs. Runouts? Ha ha! funny. good one. You are kidding, right? Not sure if run out is the correct way of stating irresponsible bolting job? I just would have done it different. I was 12 feet off the ground with my hand in a bomber hand jam and still 4 or 5 feet to go to the next bolt. The last bolt was at my foot……would for sure hit the ground. I could have supplemented with gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 Not sure if run out is the correct way of stating irresponsible bolting job? I just would have done it different. I was 12 feet off the ground with my hand in a bomber hand jam and still 4 or 5 feet to go to the next bolt. The last bolt was at my foot……would for sure hit the ground. I could have supplemented with gear. I have now, after a close read, determined that you feel that there are too many bolts. Not enough bolts Inappropriate bolting Irregular and uneven bolting There should be more bolts but there are already too many Bolts should be removed And Bolts should be added Should have no bolts where there are already bolts Should have the shitty cracks beaten out and enlarged Should have the cracks removed. Someone is unhappy when the joy and love of climbing should be flowing through them. Given all that is there and the style it was done, just step up to the plate and fix it - just toss another bolt in there and call it a day. I think that route was bolted trad style and use to have 1/4 inch bolts and it was later rebolted with 3/8". I'm not kidding. I was serious about touching base with Ujahn earlier too. cya Geoff, thank Kyle for the pics the other day - that was great, I'm sooo pumped! Tappet bros. rule like big dawgs-thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 12, 2007 Author Share Posted September 12, 2007 Not sure if run out is the correct way of stating irresponsible bolting job? I just would have done it different. I was 12 feet off the ground with my hand in a bomber hand jam and still 4 or 5 feet to go to the next bolt. The last bolt was at my foot……would for sure hit the ground. I could have supplemented with gear. I have now, after a close read, determined that you feel that there are too many bolts. Not enough bolts Inappropriate bolting Irregular and uneven bolting There should be more bolts but there are already too many Bolts should be removed And Bolts should be added Should have no bolts where there are already bolts Should have the shitty cracks beaten out and enlarged Should have the cracks removed. Someone is unhappy when the joy and love of climbing should be flowing through them. Given all that is there and the style it was done, just step up to the plate and fix it - just toss another bolt in there and call it a day. I think that route was bolted trad style and use to have 1/4 inch bolts and it was later rebolted with 3/8". I'm not kidding. I was serious about touching base with Ujahn earlier too. cya Geoff, thank Kyle for the pics the other day - that was great, I'm sooo pumped! Tappet bros. rule like big dawgs-thanks. Thanks Bill....I don’t know who Ujahn is. I won’t be tossing in another bolt…….not worth it…..just getting the history with a small bitch session on the side. The guide states he hung on pins and bolts to clean……kind of insinuates rap bolting…..not ground up trad…..not that it matters…… See you at Jims…..if not sooner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcoe Posted September 12, 2007 Share Posted September 12, 2007 I'll bring some beer Monday to sedate you about this bolt issue. Ujahns a good dude, primo craftsman/contractor, I'll try and hook you up. Like most, he stays away from teh interweb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 I'll bring some beer Monday Why wait....cheers...... :brew: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted September 13, 2007 Share Posted September 13, 2007 Who is the developer? When? Why did they bolt cracks? why don't you use all that emotional energy for something constructive? Drinking beer for instance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted September 13, 2007 Author Share Posted September 13, 2007 Who is the developer? When? Why did they bolt cracks? why don't you use all that emotional energy for something constructive? Drinking beer for instance Or climbing.....or parenting....which I am off to do right now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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