Glacier Floss Question?

[payaso]

So I just went out and bought this sweet little Bluewater 8mm x 37m dry rope that they call Ice Floss. I didn't look too closely at the UIAA specs when I bought it, but last night I noticed that it is marked as a "twin" rope. It states that to be used in a belay that you need two of them. Obviously this is marketed as a Glacier rope for it's size and weight, but there are times that I would need to use a belay on a Glacier climb. What if there is like a half pitch on rock or something like that? Maybe a very short rappel? I am a little confused because they are pretty careful about making it clear that a twin rope is to be used in pairs.

[mattp]

If you encounter a steep rock pitch, climb on a doubled line and clip both ropes into all of the same anchors. This is Twin rope technique, and although it does not have all the advantages of double-rope technique, it is a little easier to manage and it avoids the issue (overblown in my opinion) of having one rope trash the other if they share a carabiner). For rappelling, your rope is just fine. All around, the ice floss is probably a good choice for general mountaineering but if you want to do more technical climbs you my want a more stouter rope.

[Dru]

I thought Icefloss (7.6mm!!) is marketed as a light twin rope for hard alpine and ice climbing where the low impact forces will be less likely to pop out your ice screw or sketchy piton- not as a glacier rope to avoid falling in crevasses.?? They really sell it as a 37m length for glacier crossings? Dude if you fell on a single strand of that you could deck out on the crevasse bottom from the stretch!

[payaso]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

if you fell on a single strand of that you could deck out on the crevasse bottom from the stretch!

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Hmmm, you lost me there Dru. The stretch on my 60m x 10.5mm rock rope would probably be similar if I were to haul it up for a glacier crossing, and I punched through into a crevasse. Do you use a static rope on glaciers?

[Dru]

Ropes stretch more the thinner they are, generally. Also trend to stretch more with lower impact forces, as more of the force of the fall is absorbed thru rope elongation and less is transferred to the pro. 7.6mm is super thin, low impact force, hence very stretchy.

 

Like, say you see someone on ICy BC, which is a 40m pitch, TRing it on a 8.5mm, it is not uncommon that they go to "take" on the rope 5m off the ground, and with rope stretch, end up touching the ground even on a TR fall.

[payaso]

So did I buy something I have no business owning? I intend on this being a rope that I carry for general mountaineering (glacier travel, 3-4 people on rope, occasional need to rappel, belay, and possibly occasional need to ascend / traverse a rock pitch. I do not intend on going out and buying another one to have a "set" of twin ropes. The salesman really recommended this for what I wanted. I imagine that if I intended to be doing more vertical pursuits that I would indeed need two of these ropes. For what I want though, perhaps this will work fine, or am I crazy to even think about using a single twin rope for this purpose?

[To_The_Top]

I also own the Ice Floss, and it does stay very dry on glaciers for a long time. I have rappeled on a old one retired now and did not like the elastic aspect of it and the fact I felt like I was on a string of yarn. Ive used these ropes on med to low angle glacier travel and feel that it is perfect up to 3 people and maybe a little short for 4. They are nice and light.

TTT

[mattp]

Your rope will be fine. Dru may be right that it is specifically designed for a more limited range of applications, but my guess is that (1) your rope is strong enough for glacier travel and for belaying low-angled rock, (2) it will stretch more than a fatter rope but this will be more of an inconvenience than a hazard, and (3) it is light enough that you will be less likely to leave it behind than you might with a heavier rope (thus it may in fact be SAFER then other alternatives).

[Dru]

quote:

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Originally posted by payaso:

So did I buy something I have no business owning? I intend on this being a rope that I carry for general mountaineering (glacier travel, 3-4 people on rope, occasional need to rappel, belay, and possibly occasional need to ascend / traverse a rock pitch. I do not intend on going out and buying another one to have a "set" of twin ropes. The salesman really recommended this for what I wanted. I imagine that if I intended to be doing more vertical pursuits that I would indeed need two of these ropes. For what I want though, perhaps this will work fine, or am I crazy to even think about using a single twin rope for this purpose?

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naw its probably fine but be aware you could fall a longer distance if you do fall. and if you are doing anything moderately technical (like simulclimbing 5.2 or whatever), its probably best to tie-in to the middle, and have a short 17m double rope, rather than a 34m single rope.

 

i think the salesman kinda gave you the wrong pitch, though. i would prefer to have a single cord rated half rope rather than a twin rope for the activities you plan, mainly for the reasons outlined above.

[Lambone]

quote:

---

Originally posted by payaso:

So did I buy something I have no business owning? I intend on this being a rope that I carry for general mountaineering (glacier travel, 3-4 people on rope, occasional need to rappel, belay, and possibly occasional need to ascend / traverse a rock pitch. I do not intend on going out and buying another one to have a "set" of twin ropes. The salesman really recommended this for what I wanted. I imagine that if I intended to be doing more vertical pursuits that I would indeed need two of these ropes. For what I want though, perhaps this will work fine, or am I crazy to even think about using a single twin rope for this purpose?

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I bought the same rope about 5 or 6 years ago. Since then I've used many times on glaciers and mellow alpine climbs (4-easy5th class ridges etc.)

 

Personaly I like it alot, mostly because it is so light. Ti-blocks work on thge rope if you use a thick locking biner. I use it for teams of 2 or three, on glaciers that don't have serious crevase danger. If I have four, or if the potential for a crevase fall is much higher, I usually bring my 9mil.

 

On rock I will double the rope as suggested by Dru. That way if you do fall, both strands are less likely to cut over an edge or something.

 

I think its a great rope for when you arn't too worried about falling, but still want a rope for rappeling or maintaining sanity.

 

I think you made a good buy, I've definately got my moneys worth. Have fun

[Lambone]

oops

 

[ 08-08-2002, 12:30 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

[Rainier_Wolfscastle]

I think only 7.6mm twin rope is called Ice floss. I found a 8mm rope to be nice for glacier travel or simul-climbing on low 5th class stuff.

 

Upside: LIGHT (less than 3lbs for 8mm X 30m), less rope drag, less impact force on shallow or weak gear placements which can make the difference in a placement holding or pulling out.

 

Downside: 8mm is stretchy, you will fall further before stopping than a single rope and prehaps hit something or get flipped upside down with the longer fall. Edge cut resistance is poor, but this risk can be minimized by placing gear so the rope can't "saw" on a sharp edge in a fall. Prussiking a 8mm rope can be tough if you prussik material is close in diameter (6mm or 7mm). 5mm seems to work OK for me.

[iain]

wouldn't hurt to give the line a good soaking and see if your prusiks don't slip on a z-drag (or whatever you use) and do some quick ascending too.

 

you guys and your 30m ropes

[Lambone]

Ti-blocks work best on the 7.8mm, but 5mm cord works too.

[fixedPin]

I'd be a bit careful on any rock or ice with a 'twin' rope. Most UIAA for twins state that a single strand is not guaranteed to hold any falls. 'Half' ropes are rated to hold a least a single fall on a single strand. Make sure to double it up as suggested which only leaves you with an 18 meter pitch. According to the Messiah (Mark Twight) twin ropes are the safest rope technique.

 

Also note that rapelling with twins can be a bit sketchy since there is so little friction in belay device making stopping more difficult - especially with icy gloves.

 

[ 08-10-2002, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: fixedPin ]

[BigWave]

Hey, it sounds like he is going to be dragging this line through the snow. For that it rocks. Light, quick protection for the occasional slog. I've used halfs and twins for the same thing many times, they work great. Be sure youre comfy with all your gear! On a 37m we usually use a kiwi coil with 2, one in the middle with three, feels a little crowded with 4. These ropes also work great if you need a tag line or just a liitle longer than a single rope on longer technical rock climbs. Go use what ya got and then tell us what you think. Happy sloggin'

[Paul_detrick]

Dru had it right, it is a ice climbing rope, that does not mean it will not work for what you want.But if I was you I would buy 1 more and start iceclimbing.