ericb Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I think a lot of research supports that having two parents in the house has a big impact on the trajectory of young kids wtf are you talking about, eric? Children CHOOSE to be raised poorly. Aren't you listening to KaskadskyjKozak? Sheesh. Interesting dichotomy with the liberals - while the urban poor don't always consciously choose to get pregnant, abortion affords them the ability to consciously choose to give birth to the child. If they didn't have some notion of the character of the guy they screwed....even with late term limits, they have 3 months to figure out that the guy is a fuck-up. They have another 6 months to choose to give the child up for adoption, and yet they choose to keep in and raise it despite their lack of resources and despite the fact that the father is a drug dealing fuck-up. You are right....kids don't choose poverty - their parents choose it for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 He's also a privileged, well paid, likely well educated, reasonably wealthy idiot with a narrow viewpoint. So true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 He's entitled to his opinion. He's also a privileged, well paid, likely well educated, reasonably wealthy idiot with a narrow viewpoint. he worked his ass off... you know nothing about the dude, do you I dont need to know about his background.....it is what he says now that makes a difference...he has a huge ego. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 agree on the not caring about the background. i was instead pointing out the judgement on the guy based on a guess, i'm guessing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 actually..i take that back. it doesn matter his background. someone that came rags to riches based on hard work and against a lot of odds probably has some more insightful things to say than someone 'privileged' enough to be born into money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I think a lot of research supports that having two parents in the house has a big impact on the trajectory of young kids wtf are you talking about, eric? Children CHOOSE to be raised poorly. Aren't you listening to KaskadskyjKozak? Sheesh. he just chooses not to put words in my mouth --- something you left-wing-nuts love to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 yeah, they just get "trapped". all by accident, nothing they ever did (or continue to do). Was talking to my Dad the other day (assistant superindenant, working closely with the WASL, used to be a principal at a very poor elementary school in Spokane where he managed to improve reading and math scores from around 30% to close to 90% in the space of 2 years, yada, yada, yada.... any way, lots and lots of experience dealing with kids from poor families, and lots of time spent looking at how to improve scores and improve kids chances of escaping the poverty cycle) Anyways, a study a few years ago looked at a whole bunch of possible predictors of whether a kid would end up going to college/be gainfully employed/escape the drugs/crime/poverty cycle was? Grades, family life, divorce, single parents, etc, etc, etc, etc...... So any guesses what the best predictor was with nearly a 90% accuracy rate? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The opinion of they're 5th grade teacher. So for most kids, by grade 5, they are already on the path that they will be on for the rest of their life. How can you even be responsible for the decisions that affect the rest of your life at that age? That doesn't negate personal responsibility, and some people do manage to break the cycles anyway, but they're few and far between. One big mistake I see made over and over is to assume that you are average and project yourself into the shoes of other people and say you could do better. Very few people I've met in the Seattle area, and even fewer climbers I've met are anyone I would consider in "average", or typically representative of "poor" people (measured in schools by the percent of kids that receive free or reduced lunch). An interesting example is one of the Hell's Angels that was recently convicted in Seattle. Turns out he has a daughter, and is one of the most caring, active parents in his school district. He's still committed murder, and done some nasty shit, but he's also doing everything he can to be a good parent. The problem is that he joined the gang 25 years ago, did some stupid nasty stuff, and now he's stuck. He can be a Hells Angel and try to be a good father. Or he can not be a Hells Angel and die. As a single parent, how does that affect his daughter, and her chances of getting out of the same cycle? please. people make choices and then blame "fate", "the system" or the "man", but the fact is, they make choices. repeatedly. Your right, people do make choices all the time. The question is weather they make a conscious choice or an unconscious one, and weight that with the answer they are predisposed to come up with. And of course whether or not they make a bad enough choice before they manage to pull their head out and permanently screw themselves. It's still their choice. Looking at individual paths it's easy to point out turning points and bad choices, but when enough people are making the same choices over and over again, even though they may be clearly bad to the rest of us, does it speak to simple laziness, or something else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 actually..i take that back. it doesn matter his background. someone that came rags to riches based on hard work and against a lot of odds probably has some more insightful things to say than someone 'privileged' enough to be born into money. My dad is a rag's to upper middle class person. He was the son of an abusive father with rage issues who worked at tire factory in Pennsylvania and a stay at home mom. He was lucky to get C's in highschool. My great grandfather, grandfather (when he was 8 or 9) and grandmother (all of whom I've known well as my Great grandfather only passed away 2 years ago) worked for the mob running numbers and booze during prohibition, then was a teamster for a while during the 40's and 50's and hustled golf into 50's. One of his favorite sayings was that "A dago's as good as a * any day". He wasn't being facetious. Hell, I remember living in a house in Chicago that only had 3 walls, and lived in downtown Oakland during the late 70's. We were poor enough one year we had a construction paper christmas tree, and the weekly treat for my parents was to go the payphone down the street to call home. I wasn't born into money. I'm exactly 1 generation removed from poverty, and 2 generations removed from the mob, and 3 generations removed from dirty Italian immigrants changing the spellings of their name to fit in better. My grandfather pulled himself up by his bootstraps, as did my father. I have a reasonable perspective, and my fathers is even better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 actually..i take that back. it doesn matter his background. someone that came rags to riches based on hard work and against a lot of odds probably has some more insightful things to say than someone 'privileged' enough to be born into money. My dad is a rag's to upper middle class person. He was the son of an abusive father with rage issues who worked at tire factory in Pennsylvania and a stay at home mom. He was lucky to get C's in highschool. My great grandfather, grandfather (when he was 8 or 9) and grandmother (all of whom I've known well as my Great grandfather only passed away 2 years ago) worked for the mob running numbers and booze during prohibition, then was a teamster for a while during the 40's and 50's and hustled golf into 50's. One of his favorite sayings was that "A dago's as good as a * any day". He wasn't being facetious. Hell, I remember living in a house in Chicago that only had 3 walls, and lived in downtown Oakland during the late 70's. We were poor enough one year we had a construction paper christmas tree, and the weekly treat for my parents was to go the payphone down the street to call home. I wasn't born into money. I'm exactly 1 generation removed from poverty, and 2 generations removed from the mob, and 3 generations removed from dirty Italian immigrants changing the spellings of their name to fit in better. My grandfather pulled himself up by his bootstraps, as did my father. I have a reasonable perspective, and my fathers is even better. That is an very interesting story.......if you dont mind me asking.....what is your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 That I'm neither priviliged, nor born into money, and both comments were intended to imply that my opinion or reasoning is less than valid. The appeal to the "authority" of someone else who's pulled themselves up by there own bootstraps is also pointless. It lends no more credence to Savage's opinions than it does my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 That I'm neither priviliged, nor born into money, and both comments were intended to imply that my opinion or reasoning is less than valid. The appeal to the "authority" of someone else who's pulled themselves up by there own bootstraps is also pointless. It lends no more credence to Savage's opinions than it does my own. Sounds like you are the poster child of capitalism, doesn't it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 i was saying nothing about your background. only saying something about your wrong assumption of savage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 i was saying nothing about your background. only saying something about your wrong assumption of savage. First of all....there is no right or wrong in the world....just opinion. I get my opinion of Savage just by listening to his crazy/nutcase/absolutely/ego driven talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 ...but, only for brief moments while other stations are on commercial break, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selkirk Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Sounds like you are the poster child of capitalism, doesn't it Mostly the poster child for stubborn streaks coming in from every branch of my family. I have rarely met anyone who is as stubborn or bull headed as 95% of my family, and I've never met anyone who was more stubborn or driven then a few select members of my family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 ...but, only for brief moments while other stations are on commercial break, right? Well....if you called 5 to 10 minute commercial break brief? Then yes..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 i was saying nothing about your background. only saying something about your wrong assumption of savage. First of all....there is no right or wrong in the world....just opinion. I get my opinion of Savage just by listening to his crazy/nutcase/absolutely/ego driven talk. No Right/ Wrong just opinion??? I get my opinion of Kevbone just by reading his crazy/nutcase/absolutely/ego driven talk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 is W wrong... or is it just your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 is W wrong... or is it just your opinion? Who are you asking this too? In my opinion W is a frickin nut case who has lost all perspective of being a human. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 is W wrong... or is it just your opinion? Who are you asking this too? In my opinion W is a frickin nut case who has lost all perspective of being a human. according to you there is no right or wrong, so what they hell do care for then??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 is W wrong... or is it just your opinion? Who are you asking this too? In my opinion W is a frickin nut case who has lost all perspective of being a human. according to you there is no right or wrong, so what they hell do care for then??? What are you talking about? I have to believe in right or wrong to have an opinion? You have been listening to too much savage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawks Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 is W wrong... or is it just your opinion? Who are you asking this too? In my opinion W is a frickin nut case who has lost all perspective of being a human. according to you there is no right or wrong, so what they hell do care for then??? What are you talking about? I have to believe in right or wrong to have an opinion? You have been listening to too much savage. Never heard him, can't stand the nuts on either side. All feelings no thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I haven't heard this Savage guy, but in my (limited) experience Randi Rhoads isn't exactly the posterchild for non-biased, rational political discourse, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 I haven't heard this Savage guy, but in my (limited) experience Randi Rhoads isn't exactly the posterchild for non-biased, rational political discourse, either. yeah....but she has an awesome name! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 is W wrong... or is it just your opinion? Who are you asking this too? In my opinion W is a frickin nut case who has lost all perspective of being a human. i can handle that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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