The New Medium Grade for Climbers

[TimL]

This is kinda a troll and kinda cause I'm bored. Anyways, last weekend I spent a couple days pulling down on some limestone sport routes. While at the crag everybody got into a big conversation about the lower, middle and upper grades. I just listened. This is what I heard. Most people consider 11+ to 13a middle grades or an average grade that the majority of people are climbing. Higher grades are 8a or 13b and upward. Easy grades are 5.7 to 5.11-. Although almost everyone fell in the middle grade category, believe me there were some heavy hitter there that day, and everyone still agreed that stanards are rising. A teenager that goes to my gym just put down 2 14d's in a row at Rodellar. There is at least one person at my gym who has climbed 15a. Tommy Caldwell is doing sick shit on El Cap. The Cobra crack got put down at 14a I think.

 

Not that grades really matter in relation to having a good time, but it seems standards are really rising and what was hard when I started climbing 11 years ago is no longer hard.

 

You do you think about all of this?

[kevbone]

This is kinda a troll and kinda cause I'm bored. Anyways, last weekend I spent a couple days pulling down on some limestone sport routes. While at the crag everybody got into a big conversation about the lower, middle and upper grades. I just listened. This is what I heard. Most people consider 11+ to 13a middle grades or an average grade that the majority of people are climbing. Higher grades are 8a or 13b and upward. Easy grades are 5.7 to 5.11-. Although almost everyone fell in the middle grade category, believe me there were some heavy hitter there that day, and everyone still agreed that stanards are rising. A teenager that goes to my gym just put down 2 14d's in a row at Rodellar. There is at least one person at my gym who has climbed 15a. Tommy Caldwell is doing sick shit on El Cap. The Cobra crack got put down at 14a I think.

 

Not that grades really matter in relation to having a good time, but it seems standards are really rising and what was hard when I started climbing 11 years ago is no longer hard.

 

You do you think about all of this?

 

 

If have been on 5.9's that make me whimper and run home.

[counterfeitfake]

Cobra crack is in a very well-known climbing destination and has been climbed by one dude. But it's 4 letter grades easier than what at least one person at your gym can climb?

 

Whatever, it's all relative. I think 5.11 is hard. Maybe someone else thinks 5.11 is easy. Regardless, it's not as easy as spraying.

[tradclimbguy]

The grades mean nothing. Style is where things come into play. If you are young and have injury free tendons and ligaments go pull plastic till you can repeat it on the sport crag then 11+ to 13- is probably the new middle of the road.

 

Depends though on where you hang out and with who. Go sit around the sport crags at Smith in March and middle of the road is probably 12+ to 14-. I don't think much has changed. Percentage wise we still probably have most people running 5.9 or less and middle of the road going maybe to 5.11.

 

5.12 and up still seems to be the high road. Then again I don't clip many bolts so that changes stuff a bit.

[gertlush]

You do you think about all of this?

 

I think sport climbing is for queers...

[TimL]

Cobra crack is in a very well-known climbing destination and has been climbed by one dude. But it's 4 letter grades easier than what at least one person at your gym can climb?

 

Whatever, it's all relative. I think 5.11 is hard. Maybe someone else thinks 5.11 is easy. Regardless, it's not as easy as spraying.

 

This has nothing to do with spray. I'm just observing whats happening around me.

[kevbone]

Cobra crack is in a very well-known climbing destination and has been climbed by one dude. But it's 4 letter grades easier than what at least one person at your gym can climb?

 

Whatever, it's all relative. I think 5.11 is hard. Maybe someone else thinks 5.11 is easy. Regardless, it's not as easy as spraying.

 

This has nothing to do with spray. I'm just observing whats happening around me.

 

I agree…….it is not spray until you are talking about how hard you climb. ……just talking about grades is not spray.

[Off_White]

Just in from our correspondent in Spain, eh? It's a good question coming from an international perspective, and not so much a troll since you haven't struck the requisite righteous posture. I think it's nothing that CrazyPolishBob hasn't been saying for years.

 

I think I'm losing ground in my 36 year struggle to remain mediocre as a climber.

[fenderfour]

Wasn't 5.10 mediocre last year? WTF?

[ashw_justin]

First thing: remove all of the numbers from your posts. Then ask yourselves what this thread is about (if anything).

Next thing: try doing the same thing with your climbing in general.

[TimL]

Its just interesting thinking about the standard.

 

I have nothing to be righteous about.

 

Thing is I'm mostly talking about sport climbing, not crack climbing. But you gotta admit that some of the hardest trad climber have climbed super hard sport routes.

 

I'm I trad climber at heart. I search out and find every crack I can in this country. I see nothing wrong with clipping bolts. Its fun and great training.

 

There is a time and place for everything.

Edited July 18, 2007 by TimL

[TimL]

First thing: remove all of the numbers from your posts. Then ask yourselves what this thread is about (if anything).

Next thing: try doing the same thing with your climbing in general.

 

A lot of word for nothing said.

 

Like it or not we put a number to everything. Numbers arn't the climbing experience, but they play a big part of it. For example, each means a differentr thing: WI7, A5, 5.14a.

 

Granted for me climbing isn't a numbers game, but you kinda gotta know what your getting yourself inot or what you have to get yourself out of. For example a Canadian Rockies 5.9 A2. That says a lot to me.

 

Come back with something better.

[kevbone]

This is kinda a troll and kinda cause I'm bored.

 

To all you haters out there hating on our friend from Spain.....look again at his first post.

[counterfeitfake]

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything malicious. My point is that when you're talking about high grades, it gets really esoteric. Someone climbed 5.15. What does that mean? How long did it take? How many attempts? Does it have any bearing whatsoever on me climbing? Four people have climbed City Park and it's ONLY a 5.13c? What if someone ascends a line and calls it 5.17, and nobody ever repeats it? What are we even talking about?

 

A friend of mine went to Splitter Camp in Indian Creek. He said Jim Donini argues that there are few real 5.10 climbers out there, climbers who are solid on any 5.10 demanding any climbing style. 5.13 overhanging face climbers might get shut down on 5.9 offwidth. Do numbers even make sense in this context?

 

So yeah, it's just a bunch of numbers. It IS true that we want to label and number everything we encounter. And, it's something to talk about. But is it anything more than talk for most of us? 5.13a is a middle grade? Guess it depends on who you hang out with. I don't think I've ever even made eye contact with someone who can climb that hard.

[tradclimbguy]

5.9+ climbs set before 1940.

 

Another one that can say a lot.

 

Then again we got Action Directe in 91 by Wolfgang Gullich which is considered 15a. 16 years and nothing "harder" has been put up, just a few more players and a couple more routes in the game is all.

 

The more people that climb the more climbers there are that climb hard. Then again the more climbers that suck too. Things are advancing with technology and training but I think if you re-rated half the Beckey or Robbins routes a number of them would probably be 5.10 which is what we think most people climb anyway.

 

Just sayin I don't think much has changed.

[ashw_justin]

Granted for me climbing isn't a numbers game, but you kinda gotta know what your getting yourself inot or what you have to get yourself out of.

Fine, but how does the level at which other people are climbing have any bearing whatsoever on this? You know the grade at which you can have fun. Who cares what other people are climbing?

[ashw_justin]

This is kinda a troll and kinda cause I'm bored.

 

To all you haters out there hating on our friend from Spain.....look again at his first post.

 

I'm not hating, just going after the bait! He can take care of himself. Vale.

[RuMR]

if you don't care, then why did you post, assworked?

 

Seriously, you're screaming "i don't care" so loud i think you do care...otherwise, move on...

 

good post, Tim...i think up to 13 a or b is achievable by anyone who can get a decent amount of climbing in with some specific training...so, by definition, that's "middle of the road", right?

 

You gotta be gettin' sick over there! with all the eurobadasses running around, some of it has to rub off on you and E!!!

Edited July 18, 2007 by RuMR

[Off_White]

Here in our relative backwater, it is kind of rare to find a lot of folks who can climb a 5.13a, but I've heard that is not the case in Europe, and Tim's direct experience seems to bear this out.

 

One can talk about who those rad sport climbers can't struggle up a 5.9 offwidth, but that's only because they haven't applied themselves to it, it's not something that appeals. I think the Huber brothers have pretty well proven that one can move from short really hard sport routes to hard long gear routes. A provincial bias against sport climbing, whether you think "it's neither" or you decry the relative lack of risk when it's compared to run out 5.8 choss, just holds back your own ultimate ability.

 

Climbing splintered into a number of different disciplines quite awhile ago, but many top climbers will work across the spectrum, from ice/mixed to sport, cracks to runout slabs, bouldering to big alpine stuff. It's what being a well rounded climber is all about. There was a time when it was assumed that everyone who considered themselves a climber had aspirations to all that stuff, not just calling themselves a bolderer or a trad climber.

 

I think a lot of moral outrage about sport climbing is just a face saving posture that avoids admitting you can't climb that hard. Any euro sport dog is going to have an easier time on a 5.9 offwidth than I will have on an overhanging 5.13a, I guarantee it.

 

The saving grace about it all is that when your sort it all out, all climbing is personal. It matters much less to me how hard I climb compared to you than how hard I climb compared to own my past efforts. Grades are just numbers that let you make some relative comparisons, well, and provide something to argue about around the campfire.

 

 

[RuMR]

offwhite

[Peter_Puget]

Funny thing is I don't care how hard RumR climbs BUT his son is killing me!

[Off_White]

Oh my, I hear ya, ain't the truth PP!

[RuMR]

he's still mediocre by these definitions...

 

he's unique, but only because he's exposed to stuff...i think most fit kids would do as well as him...they just don't get exposed...no biggie...

[Peter_Puget]

It's single dad action this weekend so the boys might be getting some exposure.........

[RuMR]

a bunch of families are heading to squamish, barring rain, with kids in tow this weekend...

 

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