Scooter....free as a bird

[lI1|1!]

reading some Hemingway until sunset.

 

 

the old man and the sea, only the big fish gets eaten by 's

 

i love the part where the tourest talks about not knowing a shark had such a beautiful tail

[Seahawks]

Um, he just said that dems and repubs should both view this issue.

 

And it is an equally big problem to dismiss it or to derail the discussion with "every pres does this"

 

Disagree.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_a_United_States_president

You disagree with the fact that he said what I quoted or you disagree with the fact that using the lame "every pres does this waaa waaa waaaa" is a useless derailment of a discussion?

 

This is all politically-motivated crap, just like the endless Clinton investigations. Both sides hate each other, and when they are out of power, use the legal system to take pot shots at eachother ad nauseum rather than try to simply suck it up and wait until the next election and spend their time convincing people of an agenda rather than that their political enemies are evil incarnate.

 

Everyone who lives for this stuff needs to get a life. Especially on a day like this (sun!).

 

Exactly what is going on. It only about the next election.

[archenemy]

I bet none of you knew that "nugatory" was Dictionary.com's word of the day on November 11, 2002

[kevbone]

It only about the next election.

 

Yes....we agree on something.

[Fairweather]

...anxious to see if mattp can summon the zeal necessary to conjure up a point-by-point rebuttal.

 

"If Scooter Libby goes to jail, it will be because he made a telephone call to Tim Russert and because Tim Russert has a different recollection of the conversation. Can this really be the case? And why is such a nugatory issue a legal matter in the first place?

 

Before savoring the full absurdity of the thing, please purge your mind of any preconceptions or confusions.

 

* Mr. Libby was not charged with breaking the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

* Nobody was ever charged with breaking that law, designed to shield the names of covert agents. Indeed, the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, determined that the law had not been broken in the first place.

* The identity of the person who disclosed the name of Valerie Plame to Robert Novak—his name is Richard Armitage, incidentally—was known to those investigating the non-illegal leak before the full-dress inquiry began to grind its way through the system, incidentally imprisoning one reporter and consuming thousands of man hours of government time (and in time of war, at that).

* In the other two "counts" in the case, both involving conversations with reporters (Judith Miller of the New York Times and Matthew Cooper of Time), Judge Reggie Walton threw out the Miller count while the jury found for Libby on the Cooper count.

* The call to Russert was not about Plame in any case; it was a complaint from the vice president's office about Chris Matthews, who was felt by some to have been overstressing the Jewish names associated with the removal of Saddam Hussein. Russert was called in his capacity as bureau chief; any chitchat about Wilson and Plame was secondary.

* The call was made after Robert Novak had put his fateful column (generated by Richard Armitage) on the wire, and after he had mentioned Plame's identity to Karl Rove.

 

 

Please don't shake Matt's box with facts, Jay. He doesn't like that. Also, for future reference, if there are any questions to be asked Matt will do the askin'. Got it? Here's a riddle: Can you name anyone else convicted of lying to investigators? Hmmmm. And do you recall the outrage from the left!

[high_on_rock]

I am going to go on the record in support of the Bush regime on this one issue. I believe that the current administration is noteworthy in it’s lack of honor and it’s arrogance in flouting the laws. But to allow one of his foot-solders to lay down on a sword for him would be even beyond the criminal Bush. Bush has nothing to lose by commuting the sentence (and will grant a pardon at the end of his term), and it is the only “honorable” thing to do when someone steps up and takes your bullet.

 

Bush is disgraceful, unlawful, foolish, and ignorant; why add disloyal to the list of faults. Bush did the right thing.

 

[Crux]

I bet none of you knew that "nugatory" was Dictionary.com's word of the day on November 11, 2002

I might have known, had the occasion been of any real value.

[mattp]

Sorry to let you down, Fairweather and Jay, but I'm not going to bother wading into your smoke here. The facts are that Wilson was right, but Cheney and others in the Bush administration DID decide to try to discredit him and pay him back by outing his wife and saying she got him sent on a junket. They did so. Bush said he wouldn't tolerate leaks and would punish whomever leaked, but in fact his team DID leak, he knows it, and he has decided to protect them.

 

That crap about what constitutes a violation blah blah blah, and the fact that Novak says he learned about it from Armitage who is "not a partisan player" blah blah blah, and blah blah blah ... those are distractions and I'm pretty sure you know this -- that's why you (jay) are having so much fun here. Enjoy your games.

[Crux]

Copy-and-paste-- the original Christopher Hitchens article and rebuttals here: http://www.slate.com/id/2168642/

[TREETOAD]

This is all so embarrassing for you all. Don't you feel like a bunch of hicks being taken advantage of by a huckster at a second rate sideshow?

Under normal circumstances someone would be getting their neck stretched. Somebody fucking impeach this dotard.

[Crux]

He's not a dotard, he's One Tough Hombre!

[TREETOAD]

Thanks for the link. Reading the thread after the story gives me hope.

[murraysovereign]

Thanks for the link. Reading the thread after the story gives me hope.

 

Be careful - that's a classic technique for breaking down prisoners. They say or do something that gives you hope - then they crush it before your eyes. Then, they do it again, in some other way - they say or do something that causes you to think there may be hope. And then they crush it again. And they keep doing it, again, and again, and again, until you finally despair of ever feeling hope again. And then they do it some more. Eventually they destroy your soul.

 

It's sadistic as Hell, and it's very effective.

 

So don't let them make you feel hope, or they'll win.

[Fairweather]

Sorry to let you down, Fairweather and Jay, but I'm not going to bother wading into your smoke here. The facts are that Wilson was right, but Cheney and others in the Bush administration DID decide to try to discredit him and pay him back by outing his wife and saying she got him sent on a junket. They did so. Bush said he wouldn't tolerate leaks and would punish whomever leaked, but in fact his team DID leak, he knows it, and he has decided to protect them.

 

That crap about what constitutes a violation blah blah blah, and the fact that Novak says he learned about it from Armitage who is "not a partisan player" blah blah blah, and blah blah blah ... those are distractions and I'm pretty sure you know this -- that's why you (jay) are having so much fun here. Enjoy your games.

 

The real Matt! Why don't you step outside that box you're in and address the facts?

[mattp]

Why don't you address the facts? Even the Bush team doesn't refute the basics here.

 

1. Wilson was right, but Cheney and others in the Bush administration wanted to discredit him.

 

2. The Bush team WAS behind outing his wife and saying she got him sent on a junket.

 

3. Bush said he wouldn't tolerate leaks and would punish whomever leaked.

 

4. His team DID leak and he as well as everyone in America who can read a newspaper knows it.

 

5. (This part they have not yet admitted, but what do you think?) Bush is protecting his team.

[JayB]

Sorry to let you down, Fairweather and Jay, but I'm not going to bother wading into your smoke here. The facts are that Wilson was right, but Cheney and others in the Bush administration DID decide to try to discredit him and pay him back by outing his wife and saying she got him sent on a junket. They did so. Bush said he wouldn't tolerate leaks and would punish whomever leaked, but in fact his team DID leak, he knows it, and he has decided to protect them.

 

That crap about what constitutes a violation blah blah blah, and the fact that Novak says he learned about it from Armitage who is "not a partisan player" blah blah blah, and blah blah blah ... those are distractions and I'm pretty sure you know this -- that's why you (jay) are having so much fun here. Enjoy your games.

 

Bob Novak has also forgotten his password, but he'd like to pass along the fact that he's as much a sucker for irony as I am, and given the tone of Matt's recent posts in general, and his last post in particular, he asked me to pass along the following comments:

 

"When Richard Armitage finally acknowledged last week he was my source three years ago in revealing Valerie Plame Wilson as a CIA employee, the former deputy secretary of state's interviews obscured what he really did. I want to set the record straight based on firsthand knowledge.

 

First, Armitage did not, as he now indicates, merely pass on something he had heard and that he "thought" might be so. Rather, he identified to me the CIA division where Mrs. Wilson worked, and said flatly that she recommended the mission to Niger by her husband, former Amb. Joseph Wilson. Second, Armitage did not slip me this information as idle chitchat, as he now suggests. He made clear he considered it especially suited for my column.

 

An accurate depiction of what Armitage actually said deepens the irony of him being my source. He was a foremost internal skeptic of the administration's war policy, and I long had opposed military intervention in Iraq. Zealous foes of George W. Bush transformed me improbably into the president's lapdog. But they cannot fit Armitage into the left-wing fantasy of a well-crafted White House conspiracy to destroy Joe and Valerie Wilson. The news that he and not Karl Rove was the leaker was devastating news for the Left."

 

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[cj001f]

Jay -

 

You seem like a rational human being, how the fuck can you defend Bush? You spend your time attacking others in some misguided attempt to prove your intellectual merit. BFD. Can you actually defend W's actions without resorting to "they did it" or tortured constitutional readings relying on Ouija communications with the ghost of Jefferson's drunken maid?

 

Sorry to let you down, Fairweather and Jay, but I'm not going to bother wading into your smoke here. The facts are that Wilson was right, but Cheney and others in the Bush administration DID decide to try to discredit him and pay him back by outing his wife and saying she got him sent on a junket. They did so. Bush said he wouldn't tolerate leaks and would punish whomever leaked, but in fact his team DID leak, he knows it, and he has decided to protect them.

 

That crap about what constitutes a violation blah blah blah, and the fact that Novak says he learned about it from Armitage who is "not a partisan player" blah blah blah, and blah blah blah ... those are distractions and I'm pretty sure you know this -- that's why you (jay) are having so much fun here. Enjoy your games.

 

Bob Novak has also forgotten his password, but he'd like to pass along the fact that he's as much a sucker for irony as I am, and given the tone of Matt's recent posts in general, and his last post in particular, he asked me to pass along the following comments:

 

"When Richard Armitage finally acknowledged last week he was my source three years ago in revealing Valerie Plame Wilson as a CIA employee, the former deputy secretary of state's interviews obscured what he really did. I want to set the record straight based on firsthand knowledge.

 

First, Armitage did not, as he now indicates, merely pass on something he had heard and that he "thought" might be so. Rather, he identified to me the CIA division where Mrs. Wilson worked, and said flatly that she recommended the mission to Niger by her husband, former Amb. Joseph Wilson. Second, Armitage did not slip me this information as idle chitchat, as he now suggests. He made clear he considered it especially suited for my column.

 

An accurate depiction of what Armitage actually said deepens the irony of him being my source. He was a foremost internal skeptic of the administration's war policy, and I long had opposed military intervention in Iraq. Zealous foes of George W. Bush transformed me improbably into the president's lapdog. But they cannot fit Armitage into the left-wing fantasy of a well-crafted White House conspiracy to destroy Joe and Valerie Wilson. The news that he and not Karl Rove was the leaker was devastating news for the Left."

 

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[TREETOAD]

Thanks for the link. Reading the thread after the story gives me hope.

 

Be careful - that's a classic technique for breaking down prisoners. They say or do something that gives you hope - then they crush it before your eyes. Then, they do it again, in some other way - they say or do something that causes you to think there may be hope. And then they crush it again. And they keep doing it, again, and again, and again, until you finally despair of ever feeling hope again. And then they do it some more. Eventually they destroy your soul.

 

It's sadistic as Hell, and it's very effective.

 

So don't let them make you feel hope, or they'll win.

 

Ya I guess that is what happened when we all had hope in the last election and that went for a large caliber turd. Surely light breaks upon a happier time ahead? 597 days you say.

[JayB]

Intellectually honest, morally serious critiques are one thing, the feverish conspiromongering born of nothing more than naked partisan animus that prevails here is quite another.

 

I actually find it rather depressing.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Intellectually honest, morally serious critiques are one thing, the feverish conspiromongering born of nothing more than naked partisan animus that prevails here is quite another.

 

I actually find it rather depressing.

 

me too. have a drink, you'll feel better.

[Fairweather]

Why don't you address the facts? Even the Bush team doesn't refute the basics here.

 

1. Wilson was right, but Cheney and others in the Bush administration wanted to discredit him.

 

2. The Bush team WAS behind outing his wife and saying she got him sent on a junket.

 

3. Bush said he wouldn't tolerate leaks and would punish whomever leaked.

 

4. His team DID leak and he as well as everyone in America who can read a newspaper knows it.

 

5. (This part they have not yet admitted, but what do you think?) Bush is protecting his team.

 

Matt said it.

 

I believe it.

 

That settles it!

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Why don't you address the facts? Even the Bush team doesn't refute the basics here.

 

1. Wilson was right, but Cheney and others in the Bush administration wanted to discredit him.

 

2. The Bush team WAS behind outing his wife and saying she got him sent on a junket.

 

3. Bush said he wouldn't tolerate leaks and would punish whomever leaked.

 

4. His team DID leak and he as well as everyone in America who can read a newspaper knows it.

 

5. (This part they have not yet admitted, but what do you think?) Bush is protecting his team.

 

Matt said it.

 

I believe it.

 

That settles it!

 

 

Two words: ignore list.

 

you'll be a lot happier

 

[kevbone]

Two words: ignore list.

 

 

 

 

Bush has put the American people on the ignore list.....does that make them happy?

[murraysovereign]

Surely light breaks upon a happier time ahead? 597 days you say.

 

No! No! There you go hoping again! Stop it! Don't you understand - that's what they want you to do. Then they'll just crush your hope again.

 

Don't let them do it. Don't hope, ever, not for anything, not for a second, not even a little bit. It's the only way to save yourelf.

[mattp]

Unlike the convoluted parsing of words from the right wing pundits seeking to throw smoke in your eyes, Fairweather, I have attemted to boil it down to a few simple points so that even you could understand it. Check the facts. Then dive back into Jay's smokescreen if you wish.