Leavenworth Trad Ethics

[Dr_Flush_Amazing]

 

 

 

What route is that?

[Weekend_Climberz]

I'd have to look it up in the book. It's on Fish rock or something like that, down the approach gully and right of Straight Street.

[ivan]

 

 

 

What route is that?

photoshop a moon in there and it'll be perfect!

[DCramer]

Sorry I missed this yesterday. Just a couple of things I thought I’d clarify.

 

1) I was much less interested about the status of the route or even climbing with Fender than I was in whether or not he would be willing to jump off the route upon my request. Andyf (who I have known for about 20 years) and Beckey’s (who I have known of for about the past 35 years) judgments do make me inclined to think his opinion is in error.

 

Just after Fender called me a Dick I received a PM which contained the following:

 

Honestly, I don't see why whoever that was got all testy about your Clems Holler proposal, I kind of read it as "hey, lets go climbing and check this out."

 

My response:

 

LOL Well me being a Dick is a good reason not to go with me!

 

 

2) I receive little shit about routes I have put up, but do end up in too many discussions about all kinds of routes despite having nothing to do with their FA.

 

On a different subject: I once belayed someone up the route shown in Weekend Climber’s photo as an end of the day tick. The route ends shortly out of the frame. I wasn’t inspired to follow it.

 

Thanks for letting me have the last word!

 

[andyf]

For the life of me, I can't figure out what all the furor over SS is about. I remember the bottom being slab climbing (no cracks whatsoever), using little edges and an arete. Sure you could do it without bolts...but as a free solo. There's a corner higher up approaching the first anchor, but I remember it being pretty damned blank (and I have a fair amount of experience protecting routes with RPs). Maybe there's a bolt close to where you transition to cracks above the first anchor, but I certainly don't recall any bolts protecting the cracks directly, including the final crux traverse. All in all, I thought it was one of the better routes I've done in Leavenworth, period.

 

My caveat: I climbed SS two or three years ago and I am over 40, so I don't claim my memory is perfect.

[Telemack]

I've been reading this thread for a while now and it's overblown.

The main point is don't bolt cracks, duh.

 

Some observations:

I visited Clem's and Special Spot last weekend and thought the bolts were fine, with a couple of exceptions-

-The first one on Gun Rack is overkill and right next to a crack. The last bolt on p.1 could damage a biner if fallen on, but the route would not be very safe without the bolts.

-Javelin could do with fewer bolts but I still used gear between 'em. Leave the chopping tools at home and make ethical statements by putting in your own lines.

That curving bolted flake on the Fish Wall is about 10+ and not in the Kramer guides. It looked cool and strenuous so we did it. A piece or 2 is still needed after the crux where it joins to Shark Bait, the 10a that is in the guide. See that raw spot in the flake between bolts 1 + 2? When my partner followed he yanked off a section of flake about 1 x 1-1/2 feet with a very sharp edge. It could have cut a leader's rope but on TR it merely smashed into his shin, cut it to the bone, and earned him

several stitches. As I bandaged him up I felt my doubts about those bolts evaporate.

Almost every rock thread I have read on this site quickly

turns into a slander-and-cussfest. It's not appreciated by others, even when you direct it at your friends for amusement, and it's far worse when strangers are attacked on the basis of a few sentences. Darryl is a good example: very friendly guy, done a lot for WA climbing over the years.

 

Maybe it's time for the moderator to edit this thread?

If you wanna do something positive for climbing then carpool to the crags and support politicians who care about the environment.

 

Edited June 21, 2007 by Telemack

[mattp]

I agree, Telemack: cc.com discussions of bolting and related topics all-too-often degenerate to slander/cussfests but then again so do many other discussions around here - and on many other websites.

 

This phenomenon certainly discourages any balanced or reasoned discussion and has nearly eliminated substantive participation from professional climbers, guidebook authors, or even the first ascensionists who are targeted for criticism. For these people, the risk of rolling in the mud is not justified in terms of any potential benefit. There have, however, been a few good points made along the way.